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On 24 Jun 2005, Areff wrote snip

So the fact that AmE uses the expression "the cleaners" ... for some reason. So why don't we say "the cleaner"?

Because that's reserved for the person who comes in to dust and vacuum your house?

The cleaner is the mob guy that gets rid of the body.

Tony Cooper
Orlando FL
...
} Gotcha. That makes me wonder whether, 25 or 50 years ago (cf. Kojak } Conjecture), something similar occurred in the US. We know that until the } 1960s (at the earliest) it was standard practice for most Americans to } serve spaghetti with either Heinz tomato ketchup (then called 'catsup' I } believe) or Campbell's tomato soup. This was before the era of pre-made } jarred pasta sauces (the ordinary name for which in AmE is "tomato } sauce"). So was ketchup ever called "tomato sauce" in AmE, particularly } when it was served in nominally Italian-inspired dishes? EMWTK. Coop, } provide us with your recollections
} please.
I'm not Coop (though I have a kid who used to shop there). But ketchup ("catsup" on some bottles) was always different from tomato sauce when I was growing up (which a lot of people think is still in the works). A decent quasiscratch spaghetti sauce involved cans of tomato sauce plus those tiny little cans of tomato paste with various spices and seasonings.

Ketchup is to tomato sauce what mustard is to mayonnaise. Late night at the diner they'd have ketchup bottles mating on some of the tables to get ready for another day. Tomato sauce pours; ketchup oozes; and tomato paste will just sit there upside-down all day.

R. J. Valentine
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
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}>> So the fact that AmE uses the expression "the cleaners" indicates }>> that we think of the cleaners as a plural, for some reason. So why }>> don't we say "the cleaner"?
}>
}>Because that's reserved for the person who comes in to dust and vacuum }>your house?
}
} The cleaner is the mob guy that gets rid of the body.

In Three Days of the Condor (based on Six Days of the Condor ), it was the government folks at the WTC that sent them in when Robert Redford's title character called in the hit.

R. J. Valentine
"I read." (= SparkE "I reed.")
Good Lord. Pasta with ketchup? You New Yawkers are animals!
Trust me, no one in NewYork ever put ketchup on pasta. To do so would be to court "sleeping with the fishes".
It's odd that nobody has brought up the fact that although ketchup is a meat sauce it is mostly used on french fries{that's freedom fries to you red staters}.
} }>On 24 Jun 2005, Areff wrote }> }>snip }> }>> So the fact that AmE uses the expression "the ... was the government folks at the WTC that sent them in when Robert Redford's title character called in the hit.

A funny scene in that movie is when he notices the Letter Carrier has sneakers on instead of black shoesand decides he's a fake and kills him. If you went by that you'd kill a lot of innocent mailmen, they're happy when we wear the correct pants and shirt.
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} }>On 24 Jun 2005, Areff wrote }> }>snip }> }>> So the fact that AmE uses the expression "the ... was the government folks at the WTC that sent them in when Robert Redford's title character called in the hit.

TCE is spreading.
Tomato sauce pours; ketchup oozes; and tomato paste will just sit there upside-down all day.

I'd have assumed so, but wanted to run an experiment to verify it. After suspending a can of tomato paste for 45 minutes over a bowl, not the tiniest amount of paste dropped out of it. I think it is safe to assume that, for all practical purposes, tomato paste will sit there upside-down all day.
A 150 g can of Roma Tomato Purée at room temperature, and our weather has returned to normal, is what I used. The experiment was done away from sunlight or artificial light; the atmospheric pressure was 765 mm of mercury, instrument calibration on file; and the humidity was 71%, no calibration data available.
Afterwards, I added the paste to the pork barbecue preparation I made yesterday, if anyone is curious.
US reverse-colonialism. Only the most refined viz., or at ... a nuance, or are you having memory problems again, Richard?)

The nuance is that in BrE the condiment that Americans call "(tomato) ketchup" seems to be called "tomato sauce". If ... is that a conscious Americanism of the sort that the Omrud (Final Arbiter of British English Usage), say, finds alarming?

Whatever and whoever. Ketchup is called ketchup the world 'round.
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There's a scandal currently rocking the globe involving the London office of the law firm of Baker & McKenzie (which ... do the presumptively BrE speakers involved (the stainer and the stainee) refer to ketchup as "ketchup" rather than "tomato sauce"?

If they're an international law firm they probably do business in Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia, where kechap comes from.

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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