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What you bring up is the attitude of the city people towards the country people, and the discrimination against the Cajuns.

I should have mentioned that the Creoles considered themselves superior not only to the Cajuns but to the Americans as well. Early arrivers have a habit of doing that. (The reversal of that pattern in Texas notwithstanding.)

John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much.
I have no idea how you'd prove it, but I have this sense that the French have always been more ... to itself? Had not the Norman French been welcomed and assimilated by the French French a couple of centuries before?

Strange stuff, Donna. Squires giving up their daughters? Danes keeping to themselves? The Normans welcomed and assimilated by the French French?
I don't know where to begin.
The simple answer to the Norman question is 'No'. The complicated answer would be 'No' too, for all sorts of reasons, but I don't want to do a lot of digging to back things up so I'll just ask:

What do you mean by 'French'?
More to follow, perhaps.

Mickwick
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
The 1940 work mentioned must be Geschichtsphilosophische Thesen (Theses on the Philosophy of History / 1939, published posthumously).

Walter Benjamin was a Marxist and 'vae victis' ('woe to the vanquished') seems to have been a favourite Marxist lament. Googling with (vae-victis marxist) produces dozens of interesting results - though none that I perused yielded a quote as clearly expressed as Alex Haley's.

However, when pursuing another track I came across M(ikhail). N. Pokrovsky (1868-1932), Lenin's court historian. He is said to have said that history is 'politics projected into the past'. (This was a Good Thing as far as Pokrovsky was concerned.)
Then there's Arthur Koestler, who abandoned Communism in 1937 and in
1941 explained why:

Woe unto the defeated,
whom history treads
into the dust.
Darkness at Noon
Incidentally, alt.quotations repeatedly quotes variations of 'History is written by the winners' without questioning their/its provenance. (I think. All of the posts there seem to be about 100 lines long.)

Mickwick
I have no idea how you'd prove it, but I ... assimilated by the French French a couple of centuries before?

Strange stuff, Donna.

Sorry. I suppose my knowledge of times that far back is about as sketchy as what a lot of Brits know about US history. Amplifying my ignorance without doing any digging myself:
Squires giving up their daughters?

Who did all of the arriving Normans marry, then? They weren't all monks. Did entire families arrive and they only married from other France-born Norman families, or did they not start marrying into the land-owning Anglo-Saxon families? We know they did, eventually, but how long did it take?
Danes keeping to themselves?

The Danelaw the drawing of a boundary, you stay on your side, we'll stay on our side, prevent more conflict. Am I wrong? I've seen the line on a map. They couldn't have spent 100% of their time fighting the Anglo-Saxons, but intermingling didn't work, that's what I remember. I see I may have left the idea of "settlers" out of my earlier sentence any ethnic group that is there for several centuries and still keeps its identity, that's what I'm talking about. I have the impression that that community continued speaking their own language, Old Norse, for a long time, until well, I don't know when. A few packed up and went home, didn't they, and the rest must have been assimilated by the English. When? The Norman years?
The Normans welcomed and assimilated by the French French? I don't know where to begin. The simple answer to the ... of digging to back things up so I'll just ask: What do you mean by 'French'? More to follow, perhaps.

When the Normans invaded France, obviously there was conflict, but then didn't they get (were given) the area of Normandy, as a sort of peace settlement, and they merged their language with the French of the time? I mean, I know it was distinct from the French in more central regions, but it was still French. They didn't form a separate little Norse-speaking kingdom.
I really should look that up because I don't know that era well enough, and I forget when people stopped being Franks and Frankish and started being the French of France.

Best Donna Richoux
Maddening how the Web is full of people repeating each other's (purported) quotes, and none of them saying which piece of writing it came from.

Here's an apparent source in a 1944 essay by George Orwell. Needs verification, though. Certainly sound slike him. http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/02 04 44.html "History is written by the winners."

Michael West
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
Maddening how the Web is full of people repeating each other's (purported) quotes, and none of them saying which piece of writing it came from.

I've also found the following, attributed to Plato, in two variants:
"Who tell the stories also rule society"
and
"Those who hold the power also tell the stories."

Michael West
On 13 Feb 2004 21:53:10 -0600, "Michael West"
Maddening how the Web is full of people repeating each other's (purported) quotes, and none of them saying which piece of writing it came from.

Here's an apparent source in a 1944 essay by George Orwell. Needs verification, though. Certainly sound slike him. http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/02 04 44.html "History is written by the winners."

That column is online at several other places, including http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As I Please/e/e aip 1.htm . I think I have actually read it in printed form - probably in the "Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters". So I'm pretty sure it's genuine. That doesn't prove that Orwell originated the phrase, of course.

Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
Here's an apparent source in a 1944 essay by George ... him. http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/02 04 44.html "History is written by the winners."

That column is online at several other places, including http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As I Please/e/e aip 1.htm . I think I have actually ... Essays, Journalism and Letters". So I'm pretty sure it's genuine. That doesn't prove that Orwell originated the phrase, of course.

True. I know he would have given the attribution
if he thought he was borrowing, but then again it
is possible that he knew he was borrowing but couldn't find the source in time to meet his deadline and
decided not to mention it.

Michael West
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
(snip)
I see another book, an Aesop's Fables that gives "History is written by the victors" as the moral of "The Man and the Lion", but that doesn't seem to be the canonical moral, which is "One story is good, till another is told."

I don't turn up confirmation of something I heard somewhere, but I believe the early versions of the fables did not print separate morals at the conclusion of each story. So it would not be much use trying to track down what the oldest versions of the fables said, even if that was possible.
I do see the story you mean; as shown at http://www.aesopfables.com / :

The Man and the Lion
"See there! How strong we are, and how we prevail over even the king of beasts." The Lion replied: "This statue was made by one of you men. If we Lions knew how to erect statues, you would see the Man placed under the paw of the Lion."
One story is good, till another is told.

Most were translated into English by Rev. George
Fyler Townsend (1814-1900) and Ambrose Bierce
(1842-1914) the rest are from Jean De La Fontaine in French and translated to English by several good
internet souls.
Checking the Online Books Page edition of "Aesop's Fables Translated by George Fyler Townsend," I see that that is the same, word for word, including that moral.
Bartleby.com has a version of Aesop retold by Joseph Jacobs, 1854-1916. It has:
The Lion and the Statue
A MAN and a Lion were discussing the relative
strength of men and lions in general. The Man
contended that he and his fellows were stronger than lions by reason of their greater intelligence. "Come now with me," he cried, "and I will soon prove that I am right." So he took him into the public gardens and showed him a statue of Hercules overcoming the Lion and tearing his mouth in two.   1
"That is all very well," said the Lion, "but
proves nothing, for it was a man who made the statue." "WE CAN EASILY REPRESENT THINGS AS WE WISH THEM TO BE."
John Miller's Revolution: Faces of Change , quotes "an unknown speaker at Villa's funeral" as saying "History is written ... probably said in Spanish, but the form makes it sound as though it was a common saying even back then.

All I can find are three different mentions of the fact that Pancho Villa's friends and supporters were not at the funeral:

Villa was buried the day after his death on
Saturday, July 21, 1923. Thousands of citizens from Parral followed his coffin to the cemetery, which
was drawn by two black horses. There was a military guard and a band, both of which demonstrated the
honor due him as a former general.
Sadly, none of Villa's men or his closest friends
were at his funeral. They were at Canutillo, armed and ready for an attack by the government troops.

Best Donna Richoux
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