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Ayaz Ahmed Khan (Email Removed) wrote on 05 Jan 2004:
"CyberCypher" typed:

"had not been mentioned"

My use of the subjunctive isn't altogether wrong, is it?

Here it is, yes.
"successfully resisted"

That reminds me of the short-lived discussion we had on style guides . Let me put adverbs where I want them in my writing.

You are certainly free to put them anywhere you want to. Lots of writers don't care what their prose sounds like.
year before, but I can't remember anything about those posts ... thing about you beyond your name and current email(1) address.

Does china-booter ring any bells? That's who I know you from, sadly. I can't say for Simon, but ... posts with you in that other newsgroup. I had to ignore you, then, until, eventually, I unsubscribed from that newsgroup.

Oh, yes. Now I remember. You criticized the way I explained something to someone with whom I had been corresponding for about a year and a half. You said that my explanation was too difficult for him. You based your judgment on godknowswhat and I based mine on more than 100 emails about English grammar and usage between Chinabooter and me. I wonder who was in a better position to know what he could and could not understand.
(1) I know I said just a week or so ... but my resolve gave up the ghost three days ago.

I couldn't care less.

I wasn't directing that remark specifically to you but to AUE in general. But thank you for the reassurance.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor.
My use of the subjunctive isn't altogether wrong, is it?

We're talking about a condition contrary to fact which would have existed in a past time: "If the Vikings had successfully colonized America, there would be no holiday called "Columbus Day."
Whether that "had" represents a subjunctive or not appears to depend upon what authority you listen to, it appears. *The American Heritage Book of English Usage at
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html
gives the following sentence as an example of the subjunctive "had":

"If she had only listened to me, this would never have happened."

On the other hand, the writer of the following-referenced Web page of the English Language Institute of the University of Delaware at

http://www.udel.edu/eli/g16.html
gives the example "Prophets speak of things to come as if they had already happened." as an example of a counter-factual condition, and states that in such a case the verb must be put into the past or past perfect tense. The writer explicitly denies that the "had" in that sentence is subjunctive.
"successfully resisted"

That reminds me of the short-lived discussion we had on style guides . Let me put adverbs where I want them in my writing.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
Also sprach Mike Lyle: No, he didn't. He claimed that something forced him, but he couldn't identify what it was.

I feel like Ralph Bunche. Round here "I don't know what got into me" is a pretty handsome retraction.

I don't mean to take back what I said to Simon. As I have mentioned else where in this thread, I meant every word of it. If anything, I only regret my having pushed the send button. I have killfiled him. I don't care if he persists in his barking that's what he knows best to do, as I have been observing in all those cross-posted posts from AUE to AEU, for I don't read AUE.

Ayaz Ahmed Khan
Yours Forever in,
Cyberspace.
http://adic.netfirms.com/fastce/home.html
My use of the subjunctive isn't altogether wrong, is it?

Here it is, yes.

Thanks. I can't ask you for more, can I?
That reminds me of the short-lived discussion we had on style guides . Let me put adverbs where I want them in my writing.

You are certainly free to put them anywhere you want to. Lots of writers don't care what their prose sounds like.

And I suppose you realised that I'm free to put it anywhere that after you tried to suggest a different position for the adverb.
Does china-booter ring any bells? That's who I ... ignore you, then, until, eventually, I unsubscribed from that newsgroup.

Oh, yes. Now I remember. You criticized the way I explained something to someone with whom I had been corresponding ... Chinabooter and me. I wonder who was in a better position to know what he could and could not understand.

Oh. I wouldn't know, Franke. I'm just not good at distorting and warping facts to suit the circumstance. I just wouldn't know.
I couldn't care less.

I wasn't directing that remark specifically to you but to AUE in general. But thank you for the reassurance.

Anytime.

Ayaz Ahmed Khan
Yours Forever in,
Cyberspace.
http://adic.netfirms.com/fastce/home.html
Ayaz Ahmed Khan (Email Removed) wrote on 05 Jan 2004:
Thanks. I can't ask you for more, can I?

I don't see the point. You say you don't respect me, so there's no reason to ask for my opinion. If you don't respect me, then my opinions about the use of the subjunctive, or what Raymond Wise's ELI source says in definitely not a subjunctive, would be of no use to you. You would have to reject it.

I don't remember that one.
You are certainly free to put them anywhere you want to. Lots of writers don't care what their prose sounds like.

And I suppose you realised that I'm free to put it anywhere that after you tried to suggest a different position for the adverb.

I actually did suggest a different position for the adverb, but, as you are well aware, adverbs usually do not have a fixed position in English; they can go anywhere. But in some cases, they sound better and read better and are much easier to understand in one or two places than in the other places they can go. It's a matter of style to a certain extent, but sometimes it's more about clarity. And sometimes it's about both.
Oh, yes. Now I remember. You criticized the way I ... position to know what he could and could not understand.

Oh. I wouldn't know, Franke. I'm just not good at distorting and warping facts to suit the circumstance. I just wouldn't know.

Did I warp and distort the facts? I vaguely remember that exchange, but that's all I remember of it. It's there on Google as a matter of public record, but I normally prefer to forget the past and deal with the present.
I didn't realize that I had caused you that much pain or irritation, but as you can see from our current exchange, I am no longer into such unpleasantry.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor.
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
(snip)

("Ratcheting up"? What's that mean?)

I missed the occurrence in context perhaps an uncrossposted AUE message but "to ratchet up" usually means to ... the cable in one or more distinct steps (corresponding to the teeth on the ratchet), where it is then held.

Thanks, friend; the context would indeed have helped, as I was using fairly crude irony.
Mike.
I feel like Ralph Bunche. Round here "I don't know what got into me" is a pretty handsome retraction.

I don't mean to take back what I said to Simon. As I have mentioned else where in this thread, ... do, as I have been observing in all those cross-posted posts from AUE to AEU, for I don't read AUE.

OK. I'm outathis.
Mike.
My use of the subjunctive isn't altogether wrong, is it?

We're talking about a condition contrary to fact which would have existed in a past time: "If the Vikings had ... put into the past or past perfect tense. The writer explicitly denies that the "had" in that sentence is subjunctive.

Raymond, I used were as the subjunctive, and not had . I believe the following reference would suffice for my defence, if it's at all to be considered as an attempt to defend my usage:

The American Heritage Book of English Usage
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html
To re-state, here is where I used were as a subjunctive:

... if the word Linux were not mentioned, I would have ...

I'll only take so much time as to mention that I used the subjunctive were to describe an occurrence that I presupposed to be contrary-to-fact that if the word Linux were not mentioned, which in fact, as you might have seen, was mentioned.

Ayaz Ahmed Khan
Yours Forever in, > Webmaster,
Cyberspace. > http://adic.netfirms.com/fastce/home.html
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
not

Thanks. I can't ask you for more, can I?

I don't see the point. You say you don't respect me, so there's no reason to ask for my opinion. ... source says in definitely not a subjunctive, would be of no use to you. You would have to reject it.

Perhaps. I asked only because you mentioned it.
I don't remember that one.

That discussion on standard style , which was something to the effect of: there is no standard style.
And I suppose you realised that I'm free to ... you tried to suggest a different position for the adverb.

I actually did suggest a different position for the adverb, but, as you are well aware, adverbs usually do not ... It's a matter of style to a certain extent, but sometimes it's more about clarity. And sometimes it's about both.

It didn't sound or look ambiguous to me, and so I left it that way.
Oh. I wouldn't know, Franke. I'm just not good at distorting and warping facts to suit the circumstance. I just wouldn't know.

Did I warp and distort the facts? I vaguely remember that exchange, but that's all I remember of it. It's there on Google as a matter of public record, but I normally prefer to forget the past and deal with the present.

I don't know why you consistently fail to read between the lines, Franke.
I didn't realize that I had caused you that much pain or irritation, but as you can see from our current exchange, I am no longer into such unpleasantry.

It wouldn't have mattered, had you realised it, would it have, Franke? Neither am I interested in it.

Ayaz Ahmed Khan
Yours Forever in, > Webmaster,
Cyberspace. > http://adic.netfirms.com/fastce/home.html
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