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Before we kill this off let me try one more pair: "Tutor" "Tooter".

Sorry, no. Just the first vowel(s). What about "clamour, glamour"? I suspect they are just schwa too.
Note: many Londoners use the same vowel for the endings of "narrow, arrow, etc.". I don't.

Rob Bannister
On 25 Jun 2005, Iskandar Baharuddin wrote

Is that a town is 'Stralia?

I'm pretty sure in formal usage that's "Stryl-ya", mate.

There is no L in "Stry'ya". Listen to any TV or radio programme (in Austraya).

Rob Bannister
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Very true. This is one of the problems that a foreign language teacher faces all the time.

Rob Bannister
"Poor", "Pore" and "Pour" are to my possibly eccentric ears quite distinct. "Poor" and "Pour" are close, but definitely not identical. The upper lip is lowered for "Poor".

I recall having big arguments with one of our phonetics teachers at uni. As far as I can make out, in RP at least, "poor" is the odd one out in being a glide, whereas they are all 'single vowels' for me.

Rob Bannister
Cousins who married, surely? Thanks for the info, though. Those Stuarts were all over the place.
I guess I never did understand how the English could hire an Orange. Most of my recollection about that comes from "1066 and all that".
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}>> So, tomorrow, I'm going to marry merry Mary, the Tudor tooter tutor. }>
}> I distinguish marry/merry/Mary, but Tudor/tooter/tutor are the same }> for me.
} I don't distinguish marry/merry/Marry or tooter/tutor, but Tudor is } different for me. The vowel in the first syllable is longer, the } traditional American marking for a following voiced consonant.

I get that, plus a little resonance as pressure builds up during the voiced stop, which lasts a little longer than the flap in the other two, before whiches the vowel seems to fade out. TOOD er versus TOO der. I'm guessing that someone expert at that voice-analysis software could detect the resonance during the course of the voiced stop (before any temptation to pull a British aspiration after the stop).

R. J. Valentine