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the simple

I see that the woman's voice attached to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate ... the final word, as always, must come from Richard.

Neither you nor Richard should be considered expert in Midwestern (or even Western) pronunciation, Charles.

What do you know about comparing accents? To my knowledge, you've never been anywhere, relatively speaking.
Richard, it is true, seems to have spent a few months in Chicago, but it would take a resident/native of ... of Chi-talk. Meanwhile, your credentials seem somewhat lacking. . .not unlike Bolton's credentials for representing the US to the UN.

Perhaps if you don't consider the fact I've lived all over the country. With few exceptions, those areas of the country I haven't lived in, I've visited, often spending a good deal of time there, as with San Francisco, San Diego, and Chicago. You might further consider I have an excellent ear, probably because I'm interested in accents and have heard so many of them. I've also seen a lot of cowboy and cowgirl movies. Yuck to them and the horses they sit on. Do you have your own horse, Pat?
Ray Wise, a Midwesterner, born and bred, and I, (ditto), assert that we speak the ending syllables in manor and manner in the same way (though I admit that Ray does some research to back it up).

Then both of you are either nerds or have tin ears, or one of you is a nerd and the other has a tin ear, or both of you are nerds with tin ears. I suspect the last case holds.

Charles Riggs
There are no accented letters in my email address
They do not, nor do 'manor' and 'manner' end with the same 'er' sound.

They do in BrE; so does 'manna'.

Not generally in the BrE I've heard. Or the AmE. If I were to pronounce 'manor' as 'manner', I suspect it'd sound silly to my ears. Let me try...yup, no way could that be 'right'.

Charles Riggs
There are no accented letters in my email address
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
On 20 Jun 2005 09:11:50 -0700, "John Kane"
No, yes! Those are two other words, but they both end with the same "er" as manor and manner.

Must be that Toronto accent Emotion: smile I hear a minor but noticeable difference in both sets of words.

I agree it is subtle, but it is generally there. Cowboys wouldn't pick up on it, but the owner of the ranch the manor, so to speak probably would.

Charles Riggs
There are no accented letters in my email address
I'm inclined to agree with you, Charles, but that would be only for careful speech. Normally, there's be no noticeable ... from each other. Just a tiny bit, mind you. That falls more in the elocution field than in anything else.

Checking in from New England here, and I agree completely. In casual speech, there is no difference whatsoever in how I say those two words.
They do in BrE; so does 'manna'.

Not generally in the BrE I've heard. Or the AmE. If I were to pronounce 'manor' as 'manner', I suspect it'd sound silly to my ears. Let me try...yup, no way could that be 'right'.

Strange that not one single person, either American or British, has so far agreed with you.

Rob Bannister
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
Not generally in the BrE I've heard. Or the AmE. ... ears. Let me try...yup, no way could that be 'right'.

Strange that not one single person, either American or British, has so far agreed with you.

Then, like Coop, you need to practice your reading skills.

The opposing camp is comprised of Pat No Ears Durkin and his sidekick, Ray Bookworm Wise. Are you signing up with them or with those of us with good ears?
NSOED shows "manor" and "manner" with identical pronunciations, likewise the ... a simple schwa (no 'r' of course in RP BrE).

I see that the woman's voice attached to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate sounds the first two in the same way; she lacks ... from a Midwesterner or Westerner with an American twang but the final word, as always, must come from Richard.

I suspect that the sound files M-W uses for "manner" and "manor," respectively, manner01.wav and manor001.wav , are the exact same sound file given two different names. I can't verify that, though, since the only file-compare program I have access to does not work with .wav files.
AHD4 uses a different system, giving its sound files alphanumeric codenames and using the same sound file for homophones. "Manner" and "manor" are both represented by the file M0084100.wav .

By the way, in reference to another post you made in this thread, it is utterly impossible for me to be offended when the word "nerd" is applied to me, even when I know it was intended to be an insult.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
I see that the woman's voice attached to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate ... but the final word, as always, must come from Richard.

I suspect that the sound files M-W uses for "manner" and "manor," respectively, manner01.wav and manor001.wav , are the exact ... I can't verify that, though, since the only file-compare program I have access to does not work with .wav files.

I thought the same on first hearing the pair. I can't tell any difference between them and, as Pat may someday agree, I have an excellent ear. I'm disappointed M-W made this mistake since I often rely on them for the pronunciations of words I'm unsure about.
AHD4 uses a different system, giving its sound files alphanumeric codenames and using the same sound file for homophones. "Manner" ... offended when the word "nerd" is applied to me, even when I know it was intended to be an insult.

The COD doesn't list it as derogatory, so you're of a mind with them.
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
I suspect that the sound files M-W uses for "manner" and "manor," respectively, manner01.wav and manor001.wav , are the exact ... I can't verify that, though, since the only file-compare program I have access to does not work with .wav files.

Sigh. The Windows generation, eh? What's wrong with FC?

c:\fc manner01.wav manor001.wav /b
Comparing files manner01.wav and MANOR001.WAV
004: 66 12
005: 17 18
0028: 42 EE
0074: 81 80
0075: 81 80
0076: 81 80
0077: 81 80
0078: 81 80
0079: 81 80
007A: 81 80
007B: 81 80
007C: 81 80
007D: 81 80
007E: 81 80
007F: 81 80
008E: 7F 80
008F: 7F 80
0095: 7E 7F
0096: 7E 7F
009F: 7E 7F
00A0: 7E 7F
00A1: 7E 7F
00A4: 7F 80
00A5: 7F 80
00A6: 7F 80
00A9: 80 81
00AE: 82 83
00B1: 84 83
00B3: 85 84
00B4: 85 84
00B5: 86 84
00B6: 86 84
00B7: 86 84
00B8: 86 84
00B9: 86 84
00BA: 86 84
... and so on for abou 5,500 differences noted.

David
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