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How do you know that? The picture was only of his face.

No, it's from the waist, up. And a woman would have straightened the tie before allowing someone to take the picture.

I have chided my wife more than once for not telling me my tie was crooked before a photo was taken.
You guys are lost without us.

All together now;
A man, without a woman...

John Varela
(Change "old" to "new" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much.
}
}> But the 'People call me "Bob"' segment of Mr. Cunningham's recording at }> the above URL has a near-perfect "aw" and "ah" that could easily become }> the alt.usage.english standard for "aw" and "ah". Listen for the }> excellent "PEEP-l CAWL mee BAHB" in that recording. }
} My ears can't detect any difference between the vowels of Bob's "call" } and "Bob". I don't (yet) have formant-analysis software on my computer, } so without knowing whether the vowels actually are objectively different,

You mean that someone with formant-analysis software (and the skills to use it, I might add (I have actually downloaded new versions of Praat as they were announced, but I've been so dazzled by Mr. Cunningham's skills with it that I never actually cranked it up)) could objectively determine whether there is a difference between the "aw" in Mr. Cunningham's "call" and the "ah" in his "Bob" (in that recording, of course; I heard no differences between aw's and ah's in the "hot coffee" recording)?

} I can think of two explanations:
}
} (a) The vowels in Bob's "Bob" and "call" actually are the same, and } you're just hearing what you expect to hear.
Could be. I am notorious for having a tin ear, and I have admitted to hearing Rey's "Reinhold" differently on different occasions.

} (b) The vowels in Bob's "Bob" and "call" are different (although not } phonemically so), and I can't hear the difference because I don't } distinguish those two vowels either. I don't think it would be remarkable } for Bob to have different sounds in those two words; in American English } a following /l/ often has a strong backing effect on vowels that precede } it. In many American dialects, /u/ and /o/ are so far fronted as to be } more central vowels than back vowels(1), but before /l/ they remain fully } back (u) and (oU).It is remarkable for me only in that his "call" "aw" seemed so unremarkable and his "Bob" "ah" seemed so unremarkable , when I had previously remarked on the similarity of Mr. Cunningham's aw's and ah's. I should probably mention that I am no stranger to the great variety of ways of pronouncing "Bob". In the recording being discussed (where did that URL go?), Mr. Cunningham has achieved the Great American "Bob". Going from my own personal expectations, a mild (bA:b) would have left it unremarkedupon.

This was, what, (bA":b) ("BAHB" (BrE: "BARB"?))? I'd actually like to see an ASCII IPA representation using "a", as in (ba$:b), where the "$" is replaced with some othercharacter that represents whatever squeeze has to be applied to move (aEmotion: smile over to "ah" the way I seem to recall '"' makes (AEmotion: smile have less "aw" to it. Where's a real phoneticist when you need him or her.
} (1) Or more specifically, they're diphthongs with a central nucleus and } back offglide.
I get tingles just reading this kind of stuff.

R. J. Valentine
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
} (1) Or more specifically, they're diphthongs with a central nucleus and } back offglide. I get tingles just reading this kind of stuff.

It's that mention of "diphthongs." It reminds you of "thongs," doesn't it?
Maria Conlon
... Hey Charles, how many syllables in your first name? The informal version seems to suggest that there are two, ... the ASCII IPA shows only one. Or was your informal version meant to suggest that your name is 1.5 syllables?

Mike's version, not mine, since I can't do phonetics and I generally screw up an informal spelling approximation to a pronunciation. I claim actual sound is the only way to go for us mere mortals not expert in funny symbols, if it is even true they can represent all the subtleties of a sound.
Anyway, yes, my name contains roughly two syllables and is pronounced in the ordinary way.
If it were relevant, I'd point out that I pronounce your name in two syllables, ('tSA:r-lz).

That's Greek to me, but I doubt if any American would mispronounce my name so you probably have it. The French, of course, pronounce it differently, as in Charles de Gaulle.

Charles Riggs
Email address: chriggs¦at¦eircom¦dot¦net
You think so? I thought he looked quite distinguished, just lacking a woman's touch.

I question that "ordinary looking" can be construed as derogatory in any way. He has the requisite number of ears, eyes, and other visible external parts, no tail or horns in evidence, and seems quite kempt. I rather like his tie, too.

It is my favourite tie and one I bought particularly for the suit. Dena may not like it, but what do women know about matching men's clothes? especially when "matching" can mean "contrasting" or picking a colour or pattern that appeals to the artistic eye of man for any of a number of reasons.

Charles Riggs
Email address: chriggs¦at¦eircom¦dot¦net
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
On 10 Oct 2003 15:20:38 GMT, Dena Jo
How do you know that? The picture was only of his face.

No, it's from the waist, up. And a woman would have straightened the tie before allowing someone to take the picture.

A man would have straightened out that second comma of yours by removing it!
You guys are lost without us.

We like to give you girls that impression. That way you'll be more of a mind to put out for us.

Charles Riggs
Email address: chriggs¦at¦eircom¦dot¦net
Yes. I sent Mike a file he couldn't get a sound from, the wall was so thick. I'd send a better one, if I can manage it, but lost his deciphered address.

Charles Riggs
Email address: chriggs¦at¦eircom¦dot¦net
My coworkers have asked me to stop muttering "Charles" over ... speaker, I think, without winding up sounding like Tom Brokaw.

There's nothing either monosyllabic or disyllabic but thinking makes it so. That is to say, when you've got a bunch ... how we'd fit it into poetry, or how it appears in Evan's calling-out-loud test, that counts the number of syllables.

Oh, I agree that it's not as much as two syllables, but squeezing "charles" into the space "chars" would occupy is a challenge, unless at the same time I slip into a non-rhotic mode or otherwise swallow a portion of the sound. The transition from 'r' to 'l' takes an observable moment of time.

rzed
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Hey Charles, how many syllables in your first name? The ... version meant to suggest that your name is 1.5 syllables?

Actually it was me that wrote those. Charles simply shrugged at the informal version and said "I guess so". For the ASCII IPA he shrugged and said "I dunno". So any problems are of my making rather than Charles's.

How you know or why you think, from email, I'm shrugging, I don't know. Why you misquote me, if you must quote private mail at all, I also don't know, but I won't be goaded into an argument over it except to say you demonstrate ***-poor form.

Charles Riggs
Email address: chriggs¦at¦eircom¦dot¦net
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