Odd pronunciations of English words derived from French (some of which have been discussed recently in alt.usage.english):
"forte" : The "e" is often pronounced, as "ay" (as in "hay"), /eI/, or as "ee," /i/ (source: MWCD11). The French original does not have an "e": "fort" (and the "t" is silent).
"lingerie" : The "ie" is often pronounced as "ay" (as in "hay"), /eI/. The "in" is often pronounced /An/, with the vowel in the American pronunciation for "hop," and can also be pronounced /A~/, as in the vowel the French pronunciation of the word "blanc." The pronunciation "an," /&n/, which is arguably the "logical" adaptation into English of the French pronunciation /&~/ (also represented as /E~/) is not to be found in MWCD11.

"Lupin" : I pointed out in a post concerning "lingerie" that the /An/ pronunciation is also used in the name of the main character in the animated series "Lupin the Third." In the series, Lupin is the grandson of the French fictional character Arsène Lupin. The "logical" adaptation into English would be "loo-PAN," /lu'p&n/, although one might argue for "LOO-pun," /'[email protected]/ on the basis that the name is the name of a flower, and that is how the flower is called in English.
"chamois" : The "ois" is pronounced "ee," /i/. The French original is "wah," /wa/, or, in an older pronunciation, "oy," /OI/.
Any other unexpected pronunciations in English words derived from French?

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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Odd pronunciations of English words derived from French (some of which have been discussed recently in alt.usage.english): "forte" : The ... is "wah," /wa/, or, in an older pronunciation, "oy," /OI/. Any other unexpected pronunciations in English words derived from French?

beef
mutton
fowl
judge
pork
fort
page
paper
dozen
royal
parliament
pinch
perjury
reason
rent
ward
reward
warranty
virgin
wicket
wait
AND OF COURSE:
X-ray
No; just kidding about "X-ray".
Odd pronunciations of English words derived from French (some of which have been discussed recently in alt.usage.english): "forte" : The ... or as "ee," /i/ (source: MWCD11). The French original does not have an "e": "fort" (and the "t" is silent).

I believe "forte" comes from Italian, not from French. That's why it's pronounced closer to the Italian "forte", which is less than "fortissimo".
Any other unexpected pronunciations in English words derived from French?

"Liaison" and my favorite, "in lieu of "
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Odd pronunciations of English words derived from French (some of which have been discussed recently in alt.usage.english): "forte" : The "e" is often pronounced, as "ay" (as in "hay"), /eI/, or as

But that is a mistake. The word properly pronounced fortay is the Italian forte, meaning loud. As in fortissimo.
"ee," /i/ (source: MWCD11). The French original does not have an "e": "fort" (and the "t" is silent).

Didn't know the French didn't have an e. Even in the feminine?
"lingerie" : The "ie" is often pronounced as "ay" (as in "hay"), /eI/. The "in" is often pronounced /An/, with ... "logical" adaptation into English of the French pronunciation /&~/ (also represented as /E~/) is not to be found in MWCD11.

When I learned a little French, I really wondered how it ended up pronounced this way in English. Maybe they once spelled it "an" to look like the pronunciation of French "in". Then they started pronouncing "an" like the "an" in wand, and that pronunciation prevailed but the original spelling also prevailed. ???
"Lupin" : I pointed out in a post concerning "lingerie" that the /An/ pronunciation is also used in the name ... basis that the name is the name of a flower, and that is how the flower is called in English.

s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
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In our last episode,
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broadcast on alt.usage.english:
Odd pronunciations of English words derived from French (some of ... not have an "e": "fort" (and the "t" is silent).

I believe "forte" comes from Italian, not from French. That's why it's pronounced closer to the Italian "forte", which is less than "fortissimo".

Well, yes. That is the musical term. But the word "forte" in English which means "strong point" is pronounced, in English, "fort."

Lars Eighner finger for geek code (Email Removed) http://www.io.com/~eighner / "The very essence of the creative is its novelty, and hence we have no standard by which to judge it." Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person
Odd pronunciations of English words derived from French (some of which have been discussed recently in alt.usage.english): "forte" : The ... is "wah," /wa/, or, in an older pronunciation, "oy," /OI/. Any other unexpected pronunciations in English words derived from French?

"Debut" gets knocked around quite a bit.
In the US it's usually DAY-byoo or de-BYOO.
On Aussie radio I frequently hear de-BOO
or DEB-oo.
"Premiere" has a number of variants as well.

Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
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Odd pronunciations of English words derived from French (some of whichhave been discussed recently in alt.usage.english): Any other unexpected pronunciations in English words derived from French?

I have mentioned this before: Detroit.

Would anyone replying to this message please also send me some of his or her brain cells?
Odd pronunciations of English words derived from French (some of whichhave been discussed recently in alt.usage.english): Any other unexpected pronunciations in English words derived from French?

In AE, "colonel" and "kernel" are homophones, or nearly so.

Where the BrE pronunciation of "lieutenant" comes from is a mystery to me.
Well, yes. That is the musical term. But the word "forte" in English which means "strong point" is pronounced, in English, "fort."

By some people, perhaps, but many people pronounce it just like the musical term.

Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden
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