re: Pannekoeken page 4
Pannekoeken are definitely NOT baked in an oven. The word itself (Dutch) points to the use of a 'pan'. A ... minute. When cooked on a greased hot metal surface (cast-iron) we call them no longer 'pannekoeken' but 'poffertjes' instead. dwjo
I've only eaten at a Pannekoeken Huis (when there existed a chain of such restaurants, see below) once or twice, many years ago, but as I remember it, they were oven-baked in a pan, what I would call a skillet (not the British kind, but a frying pan). I'm not going to call them up again to ask them about it though.
I found an interesting item in a restaurant review from the (Minneapolis) *Star Tribune.* Reviewing the FireLake Grill House & Cocktail Bar, Jeremy Iggers wrote the following:
See
or
http://tinyurl.com/x7pq
(quote)
I was a bit disappointed by my brick-oven apple pannekoeken ($7.75), because I expected gigantic puffy pancakes like those served at the Pannekoeken Huis chain; what I got was a flat crêpe topped with apple slices. I mentioned this to FireLake's very personable chef, Anthonie Dekker, when he stopped by our table, and he assured me that his flat pannekoeken are authentic. He should know; he's a native of a small town near Amsterdam. (By the way, the Pannekoeken Huis chain has gone out of business, but a few restaurants are operating in Maplewood, Savage and Rochester.)
(end quote)
Note that while the pannekoeken in question is described as resembling a crêpe, it is baked in a brick oven.
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Adding to the confusion is the false friendship between Ned. "bakken" (frying) and English "bake" (inside an oven).
I had never thought of that, but you are right (e.g. gebakken ei = fried egg) on the other hand a bakker (Ned) is a baker (English) and a bakkerij (Ned) is bakery (English)
Note also that "kooken" is both to boil and to cook.
The presence of so many false friends can be very confusing.
Jitze
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I just made a batch of Pannenkoeken. It was fun! I actually got the hang of the whole flipping in the pan thing. I'm planning on filling the crepes with cream cheese and strawberries, then serving it at a church potluck on Wednesday.
As an aside, my mom enjoyed sprinkling them with powdered sugar, rolling them up, squirting on a touch of lemon juice, then dipping them in cranberry sauce (homemade of course).
-Joe
As an aside, my mom enjoyed sprinkling them with powdered sugar, rolling them up, squirting on a touch of lemon juice, then dipping them in cranberry sauce (homemade of course).
-Joe
Are they thin like crêpes, thick like Minnesota pannekoeken, or somewhere in between those extremes?
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
(quoting someone else, I think? I've lost track of this thread)
That seems OK to me, too, considering the ingredients.
Some of the confusion in this thread seems to arise from two very different notions of what a "pancake" is.
To me, in the UK, it's a thin circular thing made of batter (the consistency to be like thin cream) cooked fast on the top of the stove in a flat pan greased with a mere smidgin of fat - lard or butter, perhaps. The pan has to be made fizzing hot before one swirls the batter into it, and the batter needs thinning between pancakes.The first one or two samples are usually too thick to be acceptable to anyone but the cook and any bystanding children, and the final one is almost always burnt!
The model for a British pancake is probably the Breton crêpe, though homemade ones are often slightly thicker than that. We make crêpes dentelles, which are so thin that they have a lacy fringe; this effect depends on a very sloppy mix - really a free-flowing liquid - including some 'dry' spirit such as brandy. The finished pancake is often sprinkled with sugar and lemon juice and rolled up for convenience in eating, but is also good with a little jam/jelly or with a filling of apple purée.
The US pancake seems to be a more solid, cakey kind of thing, which could be - usually is? - baked in the oven. Is this kind derived from Dutch rather than French cookery tradition?
Alan Jones
435 C is not a suitable temperature for a domestic oven, being about 800 F. 425 F is about 220 C - Gas Mar 7, which sounds OK to me.
That seems OK to me, too, considering the ingredients.
Some of the confusion in this thread seems to arise from two very different notions of what a "pancake" is.
To me, in the UK, it's a thin circular thing made of batter (the consistency to be like thin cream) cooked fast on the top of the stove in a flat pan greased with a mere smidgin of fat - lard or butter, perhaps. The pan has to be made fizzing hot before one swirls the batter into it, and the batter needs thinning between pancakes.The first one or two samples are usually too thick to be acceptable to anyone but the cook and any bystanding children, and the final one is almost always burnt!
The model for a British pancake is probably the Breton crêpe, though homemade ones are often slightly thicker than that. We make crêpes dentelles, which are so thin that they have a lacy fringe; this effect depends on a very sloppy mix - really a free-flowing liquid - including some 'dry' spirit such as brandy. The finished pancake is often sprinkled with sugar and lemon juice and rolled up for convenience in eating, but is also good with a little jam/jelly or with a filling of apple purée.
The US pancake seems to be a more solid, cakey kind of thing, which could be - usually is? - baked in the oven. Is this kind derived from Dutch rather than French cookery tradition?
Alan Jones
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(quoting someone else, I think? I've lost track of this thread)
435 C is not a suitable temperature for a domestic ... C - Gas Mar 7, which sounds OK to me.
That seems OK to me, too, considering the ingredients. Some of the confusion in this thread seems to arise from ... usually is? - baked in the oven. Is this kind derived from Dutch rather than French cookery tradition? Alan Jones
I've never actually seen an American pancake baked in the oven. Generally we cook them on the stove top. You are correct, however, in that it is much thicker than a European pancake. I believe that the main difference is that the typical American pancake has more flour, sugar, and possibly other ingredients (depending on the chef and the tastes of the intended audience) added to the batter. Some favorites include: sausage, blueberry, blackberry, raspberry, or chocolate chip pancakes.
-Joe
I posted about this in the other newsgroup, and speculated that this was perhaps a case of a word being ... the "n" in Spanish words such as "cañon," while in Spanish "tilde" has the more general meaning of "accent mark."
Interesting. I didn't know that "tilde" generalized. When I was learning the langauge, the ones over vowels were always "acentos". Looking at the DRAE, "acento" in this sense is indeed defined as a particular kind of "tilde". I can't remember what the dots on the "ü" were called.
Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >All tax revenue is the result of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >holding a gun to somebody's head.Palo Alto, CA 94304 >Not paying taxes is against the law.
Arrows don't match Laura's attribution, but neither did the attributions that I snipped.
You will find a dozen descriptions of US pancakes. In my experience, the "Pannekoeken" of the restaurant (maybe was a chain) in the Minneapolis area, were more than one inch thick, and very light, so the apple or other fruit cooked in it was half buried in the thick, airy dough. I suppose they are baked in an oven, as claimed, but probably at a pretty high heat to ensure the raising of the dough. They weren't particularly "heavy", except for the incorporated fruit.
That is NOT an American pancake, but a variation on a Dutch or Belgian dish, as can be told by the very non-US name.
The American pancake may have some small precooked fruit cooked its batter, but for the most part, cakey though it is, it seldom "rises" as high as 1/2 inch. I can't say, though, about pancakes in California or New York. I did work in breakfast-style restaurants in Colorado and the Midwest. And I think Denny's and other such restaurants would have a nation-wide standard pancake such as the one I describe here. At least, on my many road trips, I have never seen a "pancake" (part of a standard US restaurant breakfast) that was oven-baked. I think that such a variation would have a special name and would be featured on a menu with a picture, a special price, and a description.
US pancakes are cooked on stovetop, either in skillets or on griddles. In "grill" restaurants, where they are mass-produced, the pancakes are cooked on the same grill as bacon, eggs, burgers, bacon, steaks, hash-browns etc. They are not oven baked.
Think of the width difference between the US waffle and what we call the Belgian waffle or even, what we call French toast and Texas Toast.
Some of the confusion in this thread seems to arise from two verydifferent notions of what a "pancake" is. To ... be - usually is? - baked in the oven. Is this kind derived from Dutch rather than French cookery tradition?
You will find a dozen descriptions of US pancakes. In my experience, the "Pannekoeken" of the restaurant (maybe was a chain) in the Minneapolis area, were more than one inch thick, and very light, so the apple or other fruit cooked in it was half buried in the thick, airy dough. I suppose they are baked in an oven, as claimed, but probably at a pretty high heat to ensure the raising of the dough. They weren't particularly "heavy", except for the incorporated fruit.
That is NOT an American pancake, but a variation on a Dutch or Belgian dish, as can be told by the very non-US name.
The American pancake may have some small precooked fruit cooked its batter, but for the most part, cakey though it is, it seldom "rises" as high as 1/2 inch. I can't say, though, about pancakes in California or New York. I did work in breakfast-style restaurants in Colorado and the Midwest. And I think Denny's and other such restaurants would have a nation-wide standard pancake such as the one I describe here. At least, on my many road trips, I have never seen a "pancake" (part of a standard US restaurant breakfast) that was oven-baked. I think that such a variation would have a special name and would be featured on a menu with a picture, a special price, and a description.
US pancakes are cooked on stovetop, either in skillets or on griddles. In "grill" restaurants, where they are mass-produced, the pancakes are cooked on the same grill as bacon, eggs, burgers, bacon, steaks, hash-browns etc. They are not oven baked.
Think of the width difference between the US waffle and what we call the Belgian waffle or even, what we call French toast and Texas Toast.
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The model for a British pancake is probably the Breton crêpe, though homemade ones are often slightly thicker than that. ... be - usually is? - baked in the oven. Is this kind derived from Dutch rather than French cookery tradition?
No, I think you must have been misled by the previous discussion. What we're told is baked in the oven is something that is called a "Dutch pancake" (or pannekoek) when it's made in the United States. It is not the usual American pancake. (Nor the usual pancake in the Netherlands, at least not now.)
Usually American pancakes are made by pouring spoonfuls of batter onto a hot griddle. I'm sure I can find a picture. Yes, here's a series showing the making of pancakes (the studding with berries is optional):
http://familyfun.go.com/recipes/family/feature/famf97pancake/famf97panca ke2.html
Judging solidity would have to depend on some actual trials. I've had US pancakes that were thin, and others that were thick. I think they taste better slightly thin, myself. Nederlands pannenkoeken also vary in density. I have no experience with the Dutch-American hybrids Ray told us about.
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