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Hi, everyone! Happy New Year!

But I'm trying to be happy. I'm pulled into a debate over "the very English standard" in a Chinese translation forum. A "sensible" lad who crammed in China's New Oriental Language School asserts that many usages, including those in nytimes.com, economist.com, native speakers' blogs and more, are actually non-stardard and thus wrong. Even some in Oxford dictionaries now become "obsolete" or "unacceptable". One of his examples is about "which" used as relative pronoun:

A student who talks about 'strong rain' may make himself understood, but possibly not without provoking a smile or a correction, which may or may not matter.

He says which, referring a circumstance here, is a misuse. The original sentence is from the introduction to an Oxford dictionary. By the way, he also laughs at the part "but possibly not without provoking a smile or a correction" because he thinks it's bad English (maybe not very smooth for his limited reading), while I don't agree.

Also denied is another example from American Traditional Dictionary:

He left early, which was wise.

He says every teacher in New Oriental would frown on this because they were taught in school that the relative pronoun "which" should in no way substitute a foregoing sentence in the proceeding non-restrictive attributive clause.

Is that true, or the dictionary wrong?

My next question is what's your opinion about education New Oriental offers, if you happen to know. Since I really doubt about it.

He posted his comments(sorry for his dirty words):

Should any native English speaker look at what you put down here, he or she will definitely go to see a doctor as this foreigner will not only be amused, but also be suffering from a nausea and vomiting disease. Such trashy and junk words were put together to display how poor and messy your so-called English (in fact, even worse than typical Chinglish) is . You can certainly regard me as stinky because I have been so unluckily gotten into contact with you, a piece of shit. You can rest your mind that I am far inferior to you in this regard. How funny a stupid idiot like you could have an idea of building up a team! Do you believe that there are many other people on this world, who can be as similarly asinine as you are. Just go to the hell and kiss your mom's ass! Your so-called dream ( actually a kind of deliria) will never come true. Otherwise, our society as a whole will run into an overall catastrophe of deterioration of our population quality. BTW, you shall never compare yourself with violinqq, as doing so is like comparing a piece of shit with a brillant piece of jade.

My reply and comments on his English (he says he can't read because "it's a mess"):

while "poor" is my guts feeling to your lanugage, a second thought is carefully given to the reasoning why it should look so awkward. considering the paragraph Aurorean offered as a prototype in many aspects, a thorough examination helps to identify some factors that are about the language per se and that can be quickly wiped off upon notice; the rest factors, however, extend far beyond language due to their much deeper roots in thinking habits upon which words and patterns are selected.

Generally the language in question features lengthy and humdrum, which is often the lesson of Chinese English. On the whole, Chinese tolerates more repetition than English does. Oftimes parallel words and phrases, or structures of like meanings in Chinese break out powerful rather than demolish the strength. But in English, it's the other way around. Silimar elements piled on can be worse than grammar mistakes with their lower efficiency in conveying meaning and the breakup in reading, for it distracts readers, even annoys them. And Chinese is a more detailed languge. While many elements in English are self-evident and can be safely left out, doing so in Chinese is risky and would give an abrupt sense, though it can still be understood with a little extra effort. Chinese English is humdrum not just for a considerable amount of repetition, but also for a lack of lively vocabulary, sentence patterns, and other forceful expressions.

The above mentioned, it becomes apparent why and how literal translation, or writing English from Chinese structures, is problematic.

Let's proceed to the problems packed in the following paragraph, by courtesy of our Mr. Aurorean, the personality of amusing grudges and grievances, not thoroughly denied though could have been, thanks to the benevolence of the translation industry and many open-minded people. Thanks to Mr. Aurorean, for his unabashed display of his self-styled good english, which may otherwise help to benchmark many translators' work.

Should any native English speaker look at what you put down here, he or she will definitely go to see a doctor as this foreigner will not only be amused, but also be suffering from a nausea and vomiting disease.
Comments: very low efficiency. Simply put it like this: Any English native speaker at your words will... Well, "what your put down here" is self-evident in the context so it's needless. Should..... is a relatively big structure here but we don't like it to do a small job. "not only be amused, but also be" is childish logic, it's dull, not interesting, not funny.

Such trashy and junk words were put together to display how poor and messy your so-called English (in fact, even worse than typical Chinglish) is .
comments: just select one between trashy and junk, since either repeats the other here. We know such words "were put together", you don't have to speak it out, which means to emphasize. So it's needless too. poor and messy, just choose the latter, because messy conveys "poor". so-called is not a good word; the meaning is not ironic enough translated from chinese literally. So see my changes:
The bundle of words makes a valueless display of the english of yours. One won't think futher if it's chinglish or not.

See? You don't have to look sissy by shouting words like "such", "how poor", "how messy". You may have never been praised as a sense of humour by females. Well, that's okay. But you should at least know how to say barbed words in a polite manner. Or how you dare to pick up english as a gun?

You can certainly regard me as stinky because I have been so unluckily gotten into contact with you, a piece of shit.
Comments: a master of english don't end a long sentence with "sh*t." the logic is baby level too. not attractive at all. Well, try some Shakespeare way:
What's in the name "Aurorean"
that we don't call by sh*t
but smells at well

You can rest your mind that I am far inferior to you in this regard. How funny a stupid idiot like you could have an idea of building up a team!
Comments: you know why you look sissy? because you tag and cap others with boorish lore. now calm down and check back your words, you were being so desperate. God won't tag you with "idiot", because he's merciful. We won't too, because it's overtly evident what a kind of thing before us. Your words reflect yourself. you are your words.

Do you believe that there are many other people on this world, who can be as similarly asinine as you are. Just go to the hell and kiss your mom's ass!
Comments: really childish logic. i'm so sorry but your imagination is so flat. You just hurt your mother. You are 30 something. So your mother is a senior now. God bless her. hope she survives you 'cause you two are to split into different ends of the world in the long run. Cherish the rest time.

Your so-called dream ( actually a kind of deliria) will never come true. Otherwise, our society as a whole will run into an overall catastrophe of deterioration of our population quality. BTW, you shall never compare yourself with violinqq, as doing so is like comparing a piece of shit with a brillant piece of jade.
Comments: Yuk, instead just say "I'm worried about your dream" to avoid sissy impression and create gentleman image. don't say "our society as a whole" because you are not supposed to be one of the leadership level right? "an overall catastrophe of deterioration of our population quality" sound lousy: words are too long. simply try "the end of the world", and it's more vivid and impressive. by the way, i'm not that great, and the world won't collapse for my individual existence. I'm so worried about your state of health. check your family tree and see if one or two cases of Alzheimer's disease or mongolian exist. by the way, who grants you the big position to compare? look at yourself, even a far cry from a botched creature by god.

Whose English is more acceptable? I'm in want of your opinions.

Thank you all in advance.
Comments  
My advice would be to avoid getting into disputes such as this on forums. Learning English is not a competition between the learners. You'll just get dragged into a fairly pointless argument, exchanging insults, and wasting your time.

To comment on the passages you posted.

1. I certainly don't find anything incorrect about the passages and uses of English that he has a problem with. I would trust your dictionary.

2. Comparing your English to his, I'm afraid I have to say that his is better as you have some word choices and phrases that are not quite right. On the other hand, you are perfectly understandable, so his comment that he cannot read it is just silly.
Thank you nona the brit.

Now I'm clearer about what to do.

I understand it would be rather tedious to correct my words so I'm not asking for it, but If you could give me one or two pieces of specific advice, they would be very helpful, really.
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Please make shorter posts.

Please post only your specific questions, not lengthy commentary on them from you or others.
As a couple of bits of general advice I'd say

Remember that you must always start a new sentence with a capital letter.

Try to avoid over-lengthy sentences; your first paragraph is one single over-complex sentence.

Make sure that you are using the correct form of a word; especially when using nouns/adjectives.
Thank you. I'm determined to take your advice.

But one more question. Is long sentence absolutely needless? I just searched on google, and found that almost 99% say it should be avoided. If that's the case, why I frequently encounter huge sentences when reading and translating? Such as in nytimes.com, newyorker.com and economist.com?

And one request. Would you kindly point out one or two places where a noun or an adjective is used badly?
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Long sentences are not wrong in themselves but very complex structures are probably best avoided until you are really fluent. They tend to be used for more formal writing and care needs to be taken that they do not become confusing for the reader. It's more a style issue.

Actually, looking again a little more carefully, you don't really have a noun/adjective problem. It's hard to say exactly what isn't quite right - sometimes it's an odd word choice, or odd phrasing, or incorrect preposition, for example. I'd say you are 80% there so just keep on practising and ignore rude idiots on forums :-)
Thank you so much for your valuable time. I'll hold on till my words flow naturally.

Hope one day I can work out something really presentable.
Hi Lafingn,

I don't have anything to add to Nona's excellent commentary, except to welcome you to the forums and offer you the same encouragement: ignore the idiots.

Idiots are everywhere, and what this person may have in terms of language skills is completely outweighed by his poor manners and irritating sense of superiority. I'm not sure who he thinks he will be speaking to that way, but it sure won't be anyone in a workplace setting - at least, not for very long.

So keep posting on the English Forums here with your questions and don't be discouraged!
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