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It has put itself up for sale, having accrued debts of US$3.7 billion.

Below are paraphrases of above. Can you please identify the nuances between the following for me?

a. "It has put itself up for sale, because it had accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

b. "It has put itself up for sale, because it has accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

c. "It has put itself up for sale, because it accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

d. "It put itself up for sale, because it accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

e. "It put itself up for sale, because it has accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

f. "It put itself up for sale, because it had accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

Thanks
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Comments  
Hi,

I don't see that 'because' is a clear and necessary choice here. It's just one possible interpretation.

Consider 'Tom has gone to bed, having switched off the TV'.

Clive
CliveI don't see that 'because' is a clear and necessary choice here.
I thought it was. Ah well. Emotion: smile

Can you tell me about the different shades of time expressed by my examples, anyway?

Thanks
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Hi,

I'd like to avoid a lot of writing and a lot of work. And it's close to my bedtime.

Generally speaking, do you know why we would choose one of these tenses instead of another?

If so, why don't you try to comment on your own sentences, and I'll tell you if I agree.

Clive
Fair enough! Emotion: smile

a. "It has put itself up for sale, because it had accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

?

b. "It has put itself up for sale, because it has accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

both events happened in the indefinite past (close to the present/something about it relates to the present). I suppose the accuing had to happen just before 'has put'

c. "It has put itself up for sale, because it accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

'has put' happened in the indefinite past, while 'accrued' happened before this

d. "It put itself up for sale, because it accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

I don't know how I'm meant to now if put is simple present or simple past

e. "It put itself up for sale, because it has accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

?

f. "It put itself up for sale, because it had accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

If 'put' is simple past, it happens after 'had accrued'
Hi,

a. "It has put itself up for sale, because it had accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

? I don't see any reason to use Past Perfect here. Seems a bit odd.

b. "It has put itself up for sale, because it has accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

both events happened in the indefinite past (close to the present/something about it relates to the present). I suppose the accuing had to happen just before 'has put'

OK

c. "It has put itself up for sale, because it accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

'has put' happened in the indefinite past, while 'accrued' happened before this Yes

d. "It put itself up for sale, because it accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

I don't know how I'm meant to now if put is simple present or simple past

Simple Present would be 'It puts'. Emotion: geeked

e. "It put itself up for sale, because it has accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

? The Present Perfect doesn't fit here. The Simple Past establishes that we are just talking about events in the past.



f. "It put itself up for sale, because it had accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

If 'put' is simple past, it happens after 'had accrued' The Past Perfect is OK, but is not necessary except if you want to add some emphasis to th sequence of events.

Clive
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Clive
a. "It has put itself up for sale, because it had accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

? I don't see any reason to use Past Perfect here. Seems a bit odd.

Hi, Emotion: smile

This sentence raises a question for me. I understand time moves backwards from future to present to past to past perfect, but do other perfect aspects also fit in here somewhere? In other words, is this the correct chronological order?

future

future perfect

present

present perfect

past

past perfect

If this is correct, then could you justify a's correctness by saying the accruing happened before some event in the past (that is, in a time between the present perfect has and the past perfect had accrued)?
Hi,

Clive



a. "It has put itself up for sale, because it had accrued debts of US$3.7 billion."

? I don't see any reason to use Past Perfect here. Seems a bit odd.



This sentence raises a question for me. I understand time moves backwards from future to present to past to past perfect, but do other perfect aspects also fit in here somewhere? In other words, is this the correct chronological order? I'm not sure it's a useful idea to try to talk about an order of tenses like this.

future

future perfect

present

present perfect

past

past perfect

If this is correct, then could you justify a's correctness by saying the accruing happened before some event in the past (that is, in a time between the present perfect has and the past perfect had accrued)? It seems like too much of a contortion to me. Why bother with Past Perfect, when Simple Past will serve adequately? Why try to speak in an odd way?

Clive
CliveI'm not sure it's a useful idea to try to talk about an order of tenses like this.
I'm confused. Verb tenses express when something happens, whether it be the past present or future. And the past perfect is used to show something that happens before the simple past, and the present perfect is used to show something happening before the present. Can you tell me why this is wrong, please?

How else do you choose the correct tense? Don't you decide when it happens (past, present, or future), and then use the perfect tenses if you need to show something happening before something else?
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