Hello !
In my opinion, phrasal verbs are one of the charms of the English language, although they may be difficult to learn. To my surprise, sometime ago I found out that not every native speaker knows what a phrasal verb is. Then, I came to the conclusion that that shouldn't have come as a surprise because it is a Linguistics term and only people acquainted with Linguistics or teachers would know best about these issues. Nevertheless, I had fun when I used to go out with an American friend who would ask me now and then: Is this a phrasal verb ? This also reminds me of an interesting quote by Sir Winston Churchill:

"This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put."

JM
(trying to get out of lurking mode)
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Hello ! In my opinion, phrasal verbs are one of the charms of the English language, although they may be ... an interesting quote by Sir Winston Churchill: "This is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put."

Phrasal verbs are a testament to the Germanic roots of English. Of course, romance languages also commonly stick preposition on verbs to make new verbs, but in the case of romance languages, the prepositional part fuses with the verb and doesn't wander around in the sentence on its own.

Lars Eighner finger for geek code (Email Removed) http://www.io.com/~eighner / Great authors are admirable in this respect: in every generation they make for disagreement. Through them we become aware of our differences. Andre Gide
Hello ! In my opinion, phrasal verbs are one of the charms of the English language, although they may be ... because it is a Linguistics term and only people acquainted with Linguistics or teachers would know best about these issues.

Exactly. There are a great many grammatical terms that native speakers have no use for; they come in handy for adult learners of English as a foreign language.
Nevertheless, I had fun when I used to go out with an American friend who would ask me now and ... is the sort of pedantry up with which I will not put." JM (trying to get out of lurking mode)

Yes, yes, we've all heard the following anecdotes:

(1) Winston Churchill was editing a proof of one of his books, when he noticed that an editor had clumsily rearranged one of Churchill's sentences so that it wouldn't end with a preposition. Churchill scribbled in the margin, "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put." (This is often quoted with "arrant nonsense" substituted for "English", or with other variations. The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations cites Sir Ernest Gowers' Plain Words (1948), where the anecdote begins, "It is said that Churchill..."; so we don't know exactly what Churchill wrote. According to the Oxford Companion to the English Language, Churchill's words were "bloody nonsense" and the variants are euphemisms.)

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Hello ! In my opinion, phrasal verbs are one of the charms of the English language, although they may be difficult to learn. To my surprise, sometime ago I found out that not every native speaker knows what a phrasal verb is.

You'd be even more surprised if you came to England, where you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who even knows what a verb is, let alone a phrasal one.

Rudolf - Nottingham UK - www.voguehouse.co.uk
Yes, yes, we've all heard the following anecdotes: (1) Winston Churchill was editing a proof of one of his books, ... wrote. According to the Oxford Companion to the English Language, Churchill's words were "bloody nonsense" and the variants are euphemisms.)[/nq]From what I've read, the pedantry he was against was the set of rules according to which English grammar had to be subordinated to Latin grammar. Among many things, it was said that a sentence could not end with a preposition and, although this was true to Latin grammar, it is possible and natural in English. In the example above, he demonstrates that if that was taken to extremes, lots of ungrammatical sentences would arise, as we can see. The standard English sentence is - This is something I cannot put up with -.

However, if the rule mentioned would be followed, we would have his excellent example of an ungrammatical sentence, which teaches a lot. "Put up with' is, in fact, a kind of verb which we call 'phrasal verb'. The verb requires the preposition 'with' to come right after it, not before. They form a single semantic unit, which should not be broken. Of course, if he had used 'endure' instead of 'put up with', this story wouldn't have come down to us.
Phrasal verbs are a testament to the Germanic roots of English. Of course, romance languages also commonly stick preposition on ... of romance languages, the prepositional part fuses with the verb and doesn't wander around in the sentence on its own.

Yes, that's right. In my first language, Brazilian Portuguese, there are many examples of what you say. My impression is that English also sticks preposition with verbs, so it has both devices. Although 'de' is not an English preposition, there are words such as 'deinterlace', 'deicing', etc. Is that correct ?
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You'd be even more surprised if you came to England, where you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who even knows what a verb is, let alone a phrasal one.

I'd love to go to England one day. As a non-native speaker, I had the freedom to choose which standard I'd like to follow and I chose BrE. So I try to speak and write according to standard BrE.
From what I've read, the pedantry he was against was the set of rules according to which English grammar had ... not end with a preposition and, although this was true to Latin grammar, it is possible and natural in English.

It might not even be true of Latin. Most prepositions on most occasions go before the word they modify. But some prepositions can sometimes occur after, e.g., "tenus" and "palam". I have not seen a specific rule that outlaws the final position for these. But I cannot find any examples of that occurring. So, that position may fall into the class of grammatically possible, but stylistically undesirable. (But where does style end and grammar begin?)

R.
It might not even be true of Latin. Most prepositions on most occasions go before the word they modify. But ... may fall into the class of grammatically possible, but stylistically undesirable. (But where does style end and grammar begin?) R.

Although I studied Latin, I'm not that fluent :-)
I think that it was not adequately put. Latin grammar was a standard to be followed and its idiossincrasies would be adapted to other languages. So maybe it didn't have that feature. Thus, people began to think that other languages should follow the same pattern, even if they had it.

By the way, if you go here
http://www3.flamingtext.com/net-fu/jobs/093907528.html

within one hour, you'll see a Latin sentence in flames.
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