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http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/presentperfect.html

http://www.better-english.com/grammar/pspp1.htm

These links discuss the present perfect tense. They contradict one another, however:

  • The first link says the present perfect can be used with only non-continuous verbs to show that something started in the past and has continued up until now (see use #2 in the link)

  • The second link essentially says the same thing, that it can be used to talk about something which happened in the past but is relevant now.
    But this second link doesn't mention that this use of the present perfect is limited to non-continuous verbs, instead giving examples including normal verbs:
I've just finished my report.
I haven't spoken to Brian yet.


Is the first link wrong? Or Are these just rare exceptions to the rule discussed by the first link? Or has the second link incorrectly used sentences that do not illustrate the use of the present perfect discussed?

Thanks
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English 1b3They contradict one another
I don't see how.
English 1b3The second link says essentially the same thing
"essentially the same" is not actually "the same". When it comes to these various and vague descriptions of the present perfect, it is easy to convince yourself that two descriptions are the same when they are not the same at all.

Happening continuously starting from some point in the past and continuing into the present is not the same as having current relevance. I believe those are the two descriptions at the two sites. From what I read I believe that the two sites are splitting up the uses of the present perfect into different categories. I didn't see anything in that link to the second site that discussed "Use 1" and "Use 2", for example.

In my opinion, the two examples from the second site would have been placed under "Use 1" in the first site. I don't see anything happening continuously from some point in the past until now either in I've just finished my report or in I haven't spoken to Brian yet so I don't see how those would come under "Use 2".

I'm not even sure what point the authors of the first site are trying to make by including "non-continuous" in their description of "Use 2", but I'll think about it. Emotion: smile

CJ
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Ah, I see now. Thank you Emotion: smile

Learning to overcome hindrances of this nature has become less challenging over the years.

And would you say this is use of the present perfect matches use 2 of the first link? And therefore 'become' is a non-continuous verb here (I think become is a mixed verb--though I haven't seen it on a list of mixed verbs).
This last question raises another question:

Topic 2 under use 1 of the present perfect from this link below seems to me to be similar or identicle to use 2 in the link:

http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/presentperfect.html

So in other words, would my sentence above with 'has' become be an example of use 2 or use one topic 2?

Thanks
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English 1b3would my sentence above with 'has' become be an example of use 2 or use one topic 2?
I'm not going to look it up again, but as I recall, that site was putting "has become" type sentences under Use 1. I may be misrembering, though, so check again.

Frankly, just between us, they have not classified the uses of the present perfect with much rigor. Consequently, their categories overlap in ways that would make a learner tear his hair out. Don't take their categories too seriously -- even though they do attempt to be fairly comprehensive, and it is a pretty good list.

What you might do on your own, if interested, is compile a list of all the uses that these and other sites mention and organize it to your own satisfaction. Add your own categories as necessary to explain sentences you happen to run across. When you have a list that is so good that you can classify any present perfect usage in the world into one of your categories, publish it and become famous! Emotion: smile

CJ