re: 'Putative Should'? page 4
Hello
A grammar book of mine (A Communicative Grammar of English, 3rd Edition, Longman, Leech & Svartvik) talks about "putative should" as follows.
[1] I'm surprised that there should be any objection.
[2] I'm surprised that there is an objection
There is a difference between [1] and [2]. In [1], it is the 'very idea' of the objection that surprises me, not the objection as a fact.
I'm quite uncertain what the authors are talking about by saying "the 'very idea' of the objection that surprises". Does they mean the sentence mean "I'm surprised at such an objection"? If so, why not "such an" but "any" is being used here?
paco
A grammar book of mine (A Communicative Grammar of English, 3rd Edition, Longman, Leech & Svartvik) talks about "putative should" as follows.
[1] I'm surprised that there should be any objection.
[2] I'm surprised that there is an objection
There is a difference between [1] and [2]. In [1], it is the 'very idea' of the objection that surprises me, not the objection as a fact.
I'm quite uncertain what the authors are talking about by saying "the 'very idea' of the objection that surprises". Does they mean the sentence mean "I'm surprised at such an objection"? If so, why not "such an" but "any" is being used here?
paco
Comments (Page 4)
To get the concept of surprise into the future, you'll need a different construction:
I'll (I will) be surprised if there's any objection.
OR:
I'd (I would) be surprised if there were any objection.
(This one is more hypothetical -- more like 'theorizing', and therefore somewhat timeless. That is, it's outside the world of time, so it can apply to the past, present, or future.)
CJ
- I know that he will object tomorrow in the meeting.
- If it's true I am surprised that he should object tomorrow.
The second point is that
Why is "should have" not used here?
I think it would be more logical to apply
I am surprised that there should have been any objection.
What is the difference between
I am surprised that there should have been any objection. / I am surprised that there should be any objection.
-- He'll object (at the meeting tomorrow).
-- That'll be a surprise to me. / That will surprise me.
I'll be surprised if he objects tomorrow is the standard pattern.
I can't think of a scenario where "surprised that he should object tomorrow" sounds right to my ear. Sorry.
_________ should have been places the objection farther in the past. Perhaps the "sting" of the objection is still being felt with should be, and still must be dealt with as a current issue to be resolved, but the objection is past history with should have been, and has already been dealt with. should be and should have been (in this context) mean just about the same thing. Native speakers don't make a very fine distinction between these. Even if the main clause is in the past, you can use both versions with only the slight difference in meaning mentioned above, though here, because of the past tense in the main clause, perhaps the should have been version is a little more common.
I was surprised that there should [be / have been] any objection.
CJ
It seems to me that this should behaves like that only in this construction. I think it is ok to say
I don't know why he should go there tomorrow.
______________________
I don't think any adjectives derived from psych-verbs (verbs of psychological state) can be used in that construction -- not just surprised.
Because of the "object tomorrow", none of these sound correct to my ear:
I am
amused / annoyed / crushed / disgraced / disturbed / encouraged / gladdened / offended / sickened / terrified / troubled / worried / wounded
that he should object tomorrow.
______________________
However, these are OK:
I am
amused / annoyed / crushed / disgraced / disturbed / encouraged / gladdened / offended / sickened / terrified / troubled / worried / wounded
that he should be [going there / seeing her / meeting with them]
tomorrow.
Note the progressive tense and the use of verbs that represent things that are planned ahead of time.
CJ
1) Is this correct?
I am surprised that he should be going to object tomorrow.
2) Is this correct?
I will be surprised if he should object tomorrow.
3) Id it possible to interpret this sentence either as one having a mandative should or as one having putative should?
I don't know why he should go there tomorrow.