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"In the world of professional baseball in the U.S, many players such as Berry Bonds and Roger Clemens have attracted a lot of attention, as a result of the Mitchell Report alleging (the) baseball players of performance-enhancing drugs."

This is a sentence by me.. I would like to know if 'the' should be used or not.

The reason for me wanting to use 'the' is as follows:

1) I want to refer to the professional baseball players in the U.S, and not just any baseball player

The reason that makes me hesitant in putting 'the' is as follows:

1) The reader may think that I'm refering to a subset of the professional baseball players in the U.S, such as specifically those mentioned in the report, which I don't intend, really, because I want to place greater emphasis that the Michell Report alleges professional baseball players in the U.S in general, and not only limited to those specifically mentioned.

By the way, if 'the' is not used, and it's just 'baseball players', is it assumed that they are professional baseball players in the U.S. already, because I mean, it has just mentioned the professional baseball players in the U.S prior to the part in the same sentence?

Thanks.
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Comments  
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If you polish your sentence, your question disappears:
American baseball stars such as Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens have attracted a lot of attention as a result of the Mitchell Report, which alleges that many professional players use performance-enhancing drugs.
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Well, I don't really want it polished in order to avoid the issue though, cause I'd like it addressed so I know..

I notice that you have used 'many' in front of professional players to kind of sidestep the issue. But I still have a question whether or not the 'professional players' include baseball players in the U.S, or if it includes all baseball players in the world, or something like that. I think that the idea is that because 'professional players' have been mentioned in the same sentence as 'american baseball stars', that the stronger assumption is that they are of U.S baseball players only. I just wanted to see this idea, or method, kind of clearly verbalized, as being "Yes, that's how you do things", but now that you've given the sentence, I am convinced more of the idea still.

So in the same vain, I would revise the original sentence like this :

"In the world of professional baseball in the U.S, many players such as Berry Bonds and Roger Clemens have attracted a lot of attention, as a result of the Mitchell Report alleging baseball players of performance-enhancing drugs."

In order to convey the idea that it is the professional baseball players in the U.S who were alleged by the report.

Right? Thanks.
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I don't think MM reworded your sentence in order to side-step your question at all. (Do you realize how insulting that sounds?) He simply gave you some very good advice -- a better way of wording your sentence!

Using 'the' in your original sentence would suggest to me that you are referring only to the previously mentioned players -- despite the usage of "such as". There is no other context which suggests something different.

Not using 'the' would suggest to me that you are referring to all baseball players in general. In your second version of the sentence, it sounds as though you mean that all US baseball players allegedly use performance-enhancing drugs. Is that what the report stated? Did the report allege that all baseball players in the US use performance-enhancing drugs?

The comma before 'as a result' should be removed, and the word 'allege' was used very badly. MM's rewording fixed those issues as well.
>alleging baseball players
WRONG.
you allege something about someone
NOT
**you allege someone
If you want to use an -ing form here, say "accusing," but that's a different legal cup of tea ...
I don't think MM reworded your sentence in order to side-step your question at all. (Do you realize how insulting that sounds?) He simply gave you some very good advice -- a better way of wording your sentence!

No quite frankly I didn't realize that it is insulting.. maybe too forward, but in order to learn I have to state what I think don't I..? I'm kind of of taken aback by these kind of unexpected reactions sometimes. Maybe there's some negativity on the word 'sidestep'? I simply meant that I thought my question wasn't direct answered, still leaving me with question, the questioner, or the student. I didn't really want my sentence revised.. I wasn't working on that aspect.. I kind of know the sentence is structured in a weird way, but it is a translation so I just did it that way. But anyways, I'm sorry if it sounds insulting or it someone got offended.. I was just being direct.

Using 'the' in your original sentence would suggest to me that you are referring only to the previously mentioned players -- despite the usage of "such as". There is no other context which suggests something different.

The previously mentioned players in previous sentence(s)? But in some cases, when 'the' is used, doesn't it refer to some concept that both the writer and reader have in mind that wasn't directly mentioned before? With so many cases, I have a hard time knowing what's what, which the objective of my question was to find out.

Not using 'the' would suggest to me that you are referring to all baseball players in general. In your second version of the sentence, it sounds as though you mean that all US baseball players allegedly use performance-enhancing drugs. Is that what the report stated? Did the report allege that all baseball players in the US use performance-enhancing drugs?

That's an interesting question wehther or not ALL baseball players in the U.S. were alleged. I think that it doesn't matter whether or not that is true, but I want to express the concept that the report alleges baseball players in the U.S. of substance use in general.. I mean that's the goal on a higher-level of the report isn't it? It's not to personally blame the individual players that were specifically named, to defame them. It was to point out that performance-enhancing substance use is a problem in the U.S with the baseball players.

Also, I'm confused why you would say not using 'the' would suggest that I'm referring to all baseball players (in the world) in my revised sentence, when MM's revised sentence is OK.

The comma before 'as a result' should be removed, and the word 'allege' was used very badly. MM's rewording fixed those issues as well.

Why is it used very badly? And, to the post saying that alleging is not used, I don't get you. 'Alleging' is used a lot on the Internet if you google for it.

Thank you.
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Hi Mkyol
Your original sentence was this:
"In the world of professional baseball in the U.S, many players such as Berry Bonds and Roger Clemens have attracted a lot of attention, as a result of the Mitchell Report alleging (the) baseball players of performance-enhancing drugs."
The following quotes are from your last post.
Using 'the' in your original sentence would suggest to me that you are referring only to the previously mentioned players -- despite the usage of "such as". There is no other context which suggests something different.
The previously mentioned players in previous sentence(s)? But in some cases, when 'the' is used, doesn't it refer to some concept that both the writer and reader have in mind that wasn't directly mentioned before? With so many cases, I have a hard time knowing what's what, which the objective of my question was to find out. The word 'the' is generally connected with specificity. Your sentence mentioned two baseball players quite specifically. Saying 'the players' after mentioning those two players specifically tends to suggest that you are referring back to those two players. Yes, theoretically something else could have been mentioned previously in some other sentence, but your sentence did not provide us with anything other than two specific names.
Not using 'the' would suggest to me that you are referring to all baseball players in general. In your second version of the sentence, it sounds as though you mean that all US baseball players allegedly use performance-enhancing drugs. Is that what the report stated? Did the report allege that all baseball players in the US use performance-enhancing drugs?
That's an interesting question wehther or not ALL baseball players in the U.S. were alleged. I think that it doesn't matter whether or not that is true, but I want to express the concept that the report alleges baseball players in the U.S. of substance use in general.. I mean that's the goal on a higher-level of the report isn't it? It's not to personally blame the individual players that were specifically named, to defame them. It was to point out that performance-enhancing substance use is a problem in the U.S with the baseball players.Saying 'baseball players' suggests all baseball players in general. Saying 'many baseball players' makes it clear that not all baseball players are included in what is being discussed. In your original sentence, you did not say that 'many baseball players had allegedly used performance-enhancing drugs'. Instead, the word 'many' was used to narrow the number of pülayers who had attracted attention.
Why is it used very badly? And, to the post saying that alleging is not used, I don't get you. 'Alleging' is used a lot on the Internet if you google for it.Of course the words allege, alleging, alleged, allegedly, etc. are used. However, your wording was not good. Marius posted something about that too. You could have used this wording, for example:
"... alleging that many baseball players use performance-enhancing drugs."
Or as MM suggested:
"... which alleges that many professional players use performance-enhancing drugs."


Hi Yankee, first of all thanks for your kind reply..



The word 'the' is generally connected with specificity. Your sentence mentioned two baseball players quite specifically. Saying 'the players' after mentioning those two players specifically tends to suggest that you are referring back to those two players. Yes, theoretically something else could have been mentioned previously in some other sentence, but your sentence did not provide us with anything other than two specific names.

I think there was a little bit of miscommunication, and I want to clarify. I thought that when 'the' is used in a text, it may refer to something that both reader and the writer have in mind, even though what follows (the word) after the 'the' is something that wasn't specially mentioned in any of the sentences of the text. I know that one of the senses of 'the' is indicating a single thing, and another sense is mentioning of something that was specifically mentioned in sentences before or even in the same sentence. Now I'm curious about the third sense (that I just mentioned), whether or not that sense exists. Your reply seems to indicate to me that it may not exist. But actually, when I think about it, I think that it exists and you think that too, because I make use of that sense when I typically write (informally), like I'm doing right now, and use 'the'. So I think it's in the degree.. how much room is there.. since 'the' is used in some specific sense by the writer, or in other words it has one intended sense, and it is not senseless, the issue for the writer is to make sure that 'the' is intrepreted with the intended sense by the readers.. and in order to do this, one has to know what the 'the' is in detail, and how they are used.. which I would like to know.

Saying 'baseball players' suggests all baseball players in general. Saying 'many baseball players' makes it clear that not all baseball players are included in what is being discussed. In your original sentence, you did not say that 'many baseball players had allegedly used performance-enhancing drugs'. Instead, the word 'many' was used to narrow the number of pülayers who had attracted attention.

Yes, the word 'many' prefixed there reduces down the number. But still, if you reduce down the number from all baseball players in the world, it isn't necessarily reduced to baseball players in the U.S. So I think that what's mentioned in the sentence, the two U.S. players, they play a role in convincing, or making it more likely for the readers to assume that the 'many players' are players from the U.S. I would like to know how strong the assumption is for native speakers of English.. that is to say, when you read the sentence by MM, out of 100 people, how many people would think that the many players are players from the U.S, or many players from the U.S? I think that my revised sentence, although it mentions the two U.S. players in the same sentence, because of it's structure, and because it doesn't have the word 'many', that perhaps more people than not would have the idea that the baseball players are players not from the U.S, because you, a native speaker of English I assume, have pointed it out as such.

Of course the words allege, alleging, alleged, allegedly, etc. are used. However, your wording was not good. Marius posted something about that too. You could have used this wording, for example:

Thanks for this, I understand the error in my sentence now.. it doesn't mention the 'use' anywhere.
In the world of professional baseball in the U.S, many players such as Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens have attracted a lot of attention as a result of the Mitchell Report alleging that the baseball players used performance-enhancing drugs.
Here 'the baseball players' are Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens.

In the world of professional baseball in the U.S, many players such as Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens have attracted a lot of attention as a result of the Mitchell Report alleging that baseball players used performance-enhancing drugs.
Here 'baseball players' are some unknown number of unnamed baseball players, presumably professional baseball players in the U.S., since that's how the sentence starts, although this is not a logically necessary conclusion.

CJ
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