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"They are not auxiliaries unlike 'need' can be, and this is made clear by the to-infinitive that follows these verbs, and not the bare infinitive that follows auxiliaries."

1) The pronoun 'this' doesn't refer to one word, but the entire predicate. I assume this is OK... But would it be better if I wrote '...and this fact is made clear...'

2) Is it better to say: "They are not auxiliaries unlike need which/that can be..."



3a) Is it better to say: "made clear by the to-infintive that follows these verbs, instead of the bare infinitive that follows auxiliaries.

OR

3b) Is it better to say: "made clear by the to-infintive that follows these verbs, whereas auxiliaries are folowed by the bare infinitive.

Thanks a lot!
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Comments  
1. "this" seems fine to me.

2. I don't like "unlike 'need' can be", and your other suggestion doesn't sound right. You could say: "Unlike 'need', they cannot be auxiliaries..."

3a. I think "instead of" is an improvement.
Mr WordyI don't like "unlike 'need' can be", and your other suggestion doesn't sound right. You could say: "Unlike 'need', they cannot be auxiliaries..."

Thank you.

1) May I ask why you don't like what is presently there? I agree, it sounds awkward. But I can't see why.

2) 'Unlike' is a preposition. It can be followed by for example a noun + relative clause or a noun clause. Would you say 'unlike need can be' is a noun clause an object or noun and relative clause with omitted ponoun?

3) I'm also having a discussion elsewhere about the use of 'whereas' as an alternative. See my final alternative in the first post. I don't quite see that it works. Your thoughts?
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I parse (or attempt to parse) your original version (They are not auxiliaries unlike 'need' can be) with "unlike" as a conjunction -- essentially as I would You're tall, like I am. However, this does not work very well with "unlike".

The "noun + relative clause" structure is possible, but I find it a bit hard to parse the way you punctuated it. I guess you could set it off like this:

They are not auxiliaries (unlike 'need' , which can be) and this ...

However, I do not see that the word "which" can be omitted from this, and I do not see that your original version could be parsed in such a way.

Regarding "whereas", I agree with you. It does not seem to quite work here.
Mr Wordy parse (or attempt to parse) your original version (They are not auxiliaries unlike 'need' can be) with "unlike" as a conjunction

That is a good possiblity.
Mr Wordy
The "noun + relative clause" structure is possible, but I find it a bit hard to parse the way you punctuated it. I guess you could set it off like this:

What about it being a noun clause as the object of the preposition?
Mr Wordy
Regarding "whereas", I agree with you. It does not seem to quite work here.

Good to hear! I was unable to convince another native of this, so I started second guessing myself!

Thanks
English 1b3What about it being a noun clause as the object of the preposition?

Well, I think that's how the version with "... unlike 'need', which can be, ..." works, doesn't it? "unlike" seems to be a preposition here.

However, as soon as you remove the word "which", I don't see how the sentence can function in that way any more.
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Mr WordyWell, I think that's how the version with "... unlike 'need', which can be, ..." works, doesn't it? "unlike" seems to be a preposition here.
No, there's a difference. As a noun clause, it has a subject and a predicate.

'unlike need which can be' is simply a noun with an adjectival/relative clause.

I didn't know about the man who killed eleven people=not a noun clause

He wants to learn about whatever is interesting=noun clause
Right... you'll have to excuse my slightly loose grasp of some of this terminology!

Is it the words "'need' can be" that you're suggesting could form a noun clause? At the moment, I don't see how that would work. As a unit, it doesn't seem to refer to anything noun-like. Can you think of any clear-cut examples of the words "<noun> can be" functioning as a noun clause in any sentence? If you could point out one then possibly a connection with your sentence may become apparent.
I can't think of one sorry.

Noun clauses perform the same functions in sentences that nouns do: Subject, object of a preposition, complement, etc.

Unlike=preposition

Need(S) can be(V)=clause (Object of preposition)

But, it could just be the noun, 'need, functioning as an object,' modified by a relative clause without a pronoun:

unlike need, (which) can be.

Do you see what I'm saying? (Sorry, it's late, so I'm struggling to put words to paper at the moment.)
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