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, Tony Cooper decided to undertake some attitude adjustment with Luke, which worked about as well as it usually does, ... Luke's hostile reactions pretty much drowned out the search for truth in usage. That's unfortunate. But also, sadly, not atypical.

My "attitude adjustment comment consisted of: "You can be bothered to come here and pose your questions about the wording of a product you intend to use to sell your services, but you can't be bothered to use a dictionary?"
Your comment was "You found such people and yet you're leaving. You really are fussy."
Why is one an "attitude adjustment" and the second a "chiming"?

Do you feel your chiming worked out any better?

Tony Cooper
Orlando FL
(I've now tried googling but didn't spot any usages along the lines used by Luke. How did you isolate them?) Matti

Search for the exact phrase: "avail it to".
Kat
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Search for the exact phrase: "avail it to".

Interesting.
Most hits refer to acts of what we might call "availablisation". Or should that be "availablization"? On the other hand "availablification" would avoid the choice of s or z.

Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u)
Luke came here to ask for advice about usage that ... he intends to sell evidently deals with money and banking.

Not evidently at all. He may be selling cheques signed by famous people, or he could be selling a book about the history of paper money, or a kid's board game that uses cheques, like Monopoly uses fake curency. There are probably a 1001 things he could be deiling with other than "money and banking" to use your phrase. It isn't very intelligent to jump to conclusions like that. That's why there is so much prejudice and injustice in the world. He might even have been addressing his writing to poorly educated people, youngsters or whatever, without much exposure to international English conventions. Luke may well be a professional in his field with many years experience, and if so, I expect he has a good reason to be concerned about the topic of his post.
He wondered if the spelling "check" would confuse readers that ... my mind, was a bit silly in the first place.

Evidently. But you you would think that, considering the way you prejudge people. It's known as cynicism.
People who buy products dealing with money and banking wouldn't have a problem with either term when used in context.

See what I said, above.
An American buyer of his product isn't going to say ... will decline to accept a third-party cheque endorsed to them."

Oh, so you know who Luke's target audience is - as well as what he deals in now then?!
Then, this guy who wonders about throwing the reader off ... the use of a word (avail) that does confuse readers.

I don't blame him. It was off-topic - and now you've made it clear that it was off-topic coming from someone with a prejudiced outlook.

Kat
In Usenet, as I assume you're aware, the initiator of a post doesn't get to decide the rules of what will/won't be considered on- or off- topic. That's up to the charter and (to a large extent) the other posters in the group.
Discussions of the usage of an English word in a group called "alt.english.usage" are, by definition, not off-topic.

You may dislike the fact that the discussion of usage has moved to another word than that raised by the original post, but that doesn't make the discussion "off-topic".

Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)
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None needed. Welcome to the fray. Both usage groups take ... must be aware," which in effect called Peter a liar.

Did you really see it that way? I didn't. I thought Luke was genuinely incredulous that someone could have not heard the word used in that way before.
If Peter was aware that the usage was "quite commonplace," ... way for a newbie, or anyone else, to make friends.

I don't think Luke came here to make friends. I think he came to solve a dilemma. I also think he said he couldn;t be bothered to look in the dictionary because he didn't consider it necessary. He didn't come here to discuss his use of "avail".
People's experience is what it is. I have no recollection ... someone else's usage, even if unrelated to the thread.

So I've noticed! Just because it happens here doesn't make it healthy form or good newsgroup etiquette. It was common practice to persecute Jews in Nazi Germany, but it doesn't make it good practice.
It often yields very interesting results. In this particular case, ... that happened here justified any part of Luke's little tantrum.

I didn't see it as a tantrum. But there you go.
Kat
Not evidently at all. He may be selling cheques signed by famous people, or he could be selling a book ... experience, and if so, I expect he has a good reason to be concerned about the topic of his post.

Kat, your defense proves the point that Luke didn't quite know what he was about as a writer looking at a particular market share, and I have to agree with some others here that his indecisiveness over minor pondian spelling differences was more fluff than substance.
If he was targeting Americans abroad in Britain, he could still do that as a British writer discussing what might be of interest to this American set. It is not good practice to "write dialect" in non-fiction, and I know I wouldn't do it if I was aiming at British readers. His problem had less to do with usage than with the fact that he wasn't quite sure who he was writing for.
Joanne
So I've noticed! Just because it happens here doesn't make it healthy form or good newsgroup etiquette. It was common practice to persecute Jews in Nazi Germany, but it doesn't make it good practice.

I think that remark is in rather poor taste.

Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless pit" with "silverhelm"
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So I've noticed! Just because it happens here doesn't make ... in Nazi Germany, but it doesn't make it good practice.

I think that remark is in rather poor taste.

Me too: and it meets the requirements of Godwin's Law, as well.

Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)
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