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"Raymond S. Wise" (Email Removed) wrote on 04 Apr 2004:
The conclusion that canning and cooking a fish can render it "non-seafood" is, frankly, bizarre.

Oy! Raymond, it's cannedfood, not seafood.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor.
The conclusion that canning and cooking a fish can render it "non-seafood" is, frankly, bizarre.

Oy! Raymond, it's cannedfood, not seafood. Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor.

I still don't get it.
How would you characterize tuna that is preserved in foil (or is it plastic, or a combination of both?) packets, which is said have an improved flavor over canned tuna but obviously is not fresh tuna? Since it's not put into a can, it doesn't seem right to call it "canned tuna." (I haven't tried them yet, so I don't know if my taste buds would notice any difference or not.) How about frozen tuna? Are either of those "non-seafood"?

To enlarge a bit on my previous statement, the idea that any of these methods of preserving tuna can render it "non-seafood" is bizarre.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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From the second definition under the entry for "tuna" (the second entry the first is for a type of prickly pear) ... also tuna fish. " The conclusion that canning and cooking a fish can render it "non-seafood" is, frankly, bizarre.

Aren't you engaging in an error similar, in some respects, to what you sometimes call the "etymological fallacy"? That "seafood" excludes canned tuna might seem to be "bizarre", yet it is so. (At least in AmE IIRC the term "seafood" isn't even used in BrE.)
Raymond Wise:
The conclusion that canning and cooking a fish can render it "non-seafood" is, frankly, bizarre.

Richard Fontana:
Aren't you engaging in an error similar, in some respects, to what you sometimes call the "etymological fallacy"? That "seafood" excludes canned tuna might seem to be "bizarre", yet it is so. (At least in AmE...)

If it is an error, then it does seem to be the etymological fallacy, and I am guilty of it as well. I would therefore like to see some evidence, other than Richard's assertion, that it is an error.
Mark Brader, Toronto > "I shot a query into the net. (Email Removed) > I haven't got an answer yet..." Ed Nather
Raymond Wise: Richard Fontana:

Aren't you engaging in an error similar, in some respects, ... be "bizarre", yet it is so. (At least in AmE...)

If it is an error, then it does seem to be the etymological fallacy, and I am guilty of it as well. I would therefore like to see some evidence, other than Richard's assertion, that it is an error.

Of course I'm relying on my linguistic intuition here, but I'm sure others share it. If I eat a tunafish sandwich, can I reasonably say "I ate seafood"? I don't think so. We know that people don't go to seafood restaurants expecting to find tunafish sandwiches on the menu. This itself might not mean much, since Coop, being a Midwesterner, probably orders the steak.
I think "seafood" refers not simply to the fact of such food comprising animal products derived from the sea (or other bodies of water) but also to a range of possible preparations and manners of serving said food. If you eat lox on a bagel, or a tunafish sandwich, or gefilte fish, you're not having "seafood". If you eat grilled swordfish, say, or lobster, you are having seafood. Right away I think we can say that "seafood" excludes smoked and canned foods derived from the sea. Would canned smoked lobster be seafood? I don't think so.
I'll try to find some evidence.
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From the second definition under the entry for "tuna" (the ... and cooking a fish can render it"non-seafood" is, frankly, bizarre.

Aren't you engaging in an error similar, in some respects, to what you sometimes call the "etymological fallacy"? That "seafood" ... be "bizarre", yet it is so. (At least in AmE IIRC the term "seafood" isn't even used in BrE.)

No, with me it is simply a question of usage, the meaning I learned for the word: "Seafood" to me has never, ever excluded canned, frozen, pickled, or dried fish, and this thread is the first time I have ever heard such a possibility mentioned. On the other hand, "seafood" does include freshwater fish.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Aren't you engaging in an error similar, in some respects, ... IIRC the term "seafood" isn't even used in BrE.)

No, with me it is simply a question of usage, the meaning I learned for the word: "Seafood" to me has never, ever excluded canned, frozen, pickled, or dried fish,

But you're from Minnesota, Ray. (NTTAWWT) How many appetizing stores hell, appetizing counters are there in Minneapolis?

Would you really bring home from the grocery a tin of, say, sardines in wine sauce and announce to Mrs. Ray "I got us some seafood"? Well, maybe you would. I guess we'll just have to cordon off The Great Northwest.
and this thread is the first time I have ever heard such a possibility mentioned.

Proving my point.
On the other hand, "seafood" does include freshwater fish.

Some freshwater fish. Depends on what the fish is and how you prepare it.

Bob Lieblich
Anyone had any pickled lox lately?
No, with me it is simply a question of usage, ... has never, ever excluded canned, frozen, pickled, or dried fish,

But you're from Minnesota, Ray. (NTTAWWT)

Actually, he's from Central Illinois, well north of the region known as "Egypt" or "Little Egypt".
How many appetizing stores hell, appetizing counters are there in Minneapolis?

Given the Scandinavian cultural influence in Minnesota, I'd expect that there must be a lot of lutefisk establishments over (up?) there. But I don't know what sort of establishment would sell lutefisk. I'm not even entirely sure what lutefisk is.
How 'bout baccala?
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But you're from Minnesota, Ray. (NTTAWWT)

Actually, he's from Central Illinois, well north of the region known as "Egypt" or "Little Egypt".

This is true (and congratulations for getting it right). The only time I am likely to have eaten fresh, marine seafood was when I lived in Nice, France during my junior year abroad (does salade ni├žoise count?), traveled to Monte Carlo and Marseille and dined there (I had bouillabaisse in Marseille, I remember), and traveled to Madrid, where I had squid at one meal. Also, when I was traveling there and back on the SS Michelangelo we were served a salad garnished with baby octopuses.

In answer to Bob's question whether I would ever announce "I got us some seafood", it's not the sort of thing I would ever say, no. In fact, the only times I can imagine saying seafood is in such expressions as "My doctor says I should eat more seafood" (for which canned tuna and salmon would certainly count) and "I'm not a particularly big fan of seafood, but I don't mind it, either."
How many appetizing stores hell, appetizing counters are there in Minneapolis?

Given the Scandinavian cultural influence in Minnesota, I'd expect that there must be a lot of lutefisk establishments over (up?) there. But I don't know what sort of establishment would sell lutefisk. I'm not even entirely sure what lutefisk is. How 'bout baccala?

I doubt that lutefisk is readily available here, although I have never actually looked for it. If I've ever eaten it, it would have been at some Scandinavian-themed festival, and many years ago at that. I know nothing about baccala except what I just read on the Web.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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