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Raymond S. Wise typed thus:
This is true (and congratulations for getting it right). The only time I =am likely to have eaten fresh, marine ... when I was traveling there and back on the SS Michelangelo we were served a salad garnished with baby octopuses.

That's difficult to conceive for those of us living on a small island=20 surrounded by fish (at least it used to be until we ate them all). =20 As a summer visiting child to Norfolk and Suffolk, I used to go down=20 to the beach in the morning to meet the inshore fishing boats and=20 pick up some lunch. There were no bags, of course as we bought=20 direct from the boat. The fish tended to wriggle rather as you=20 carried them back, and I remember one or two escaping from my grip=20 and trying to squirm their way through the grass.
=20
David
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Raymond S. Wise typed thus:

This is true (and congratulations for getting it right). The ... Michelangelo we were served a salad garnished with baby octopuses.

That's difficult to conceive for those of us living on a small island surrounded by fish (at least it used ... back, and I remember one or two escaping from my grip and trying to squirm their way through the grass.

I seem to recall "seafood" being used to refer to shellfish and such, rather than fish fish (however you say that - "finned fish"?), in England.

Is that still so?
Fran
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Given the Scandinavian cultural influence in Minnesota, I'd expect that there must be a lot of lutefisk establishments over (up?) there. But I don't know what sort of establishment would sell lutefisk. I'm not even entirely sure what lutefisk is.

I think it's a bit like grits, only made with codfish instead of cow corn. Soaked in lye nonetheless.
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Frances Kemmish typed thus:
Raymond S. Wise typed thus: =20 =20 =20 =20 That's ... grip=20 and trying to squirm their way through the grass.

I seem to recall "seafood" being used to refer to shellfish and such,=20 rather than fish fish (however you say that - "finned fish"?), in England=. Is that still so?

I don't think we regularly use the word "seafood" at all. It's=20 either "fish" or "shellfish". However, a "fish restaurant" would=20 sell shellfish as well.
I do not, as a rule, enjoy watching TV chefs, but Rick Stein's=20 enthusiasm and love of food in his "Food Heroes" series have won me=20 over. This week, a farmer cooked him some well-managed farmed=20 venison and was delighted to get his approval. Rick asked if he'd=20 tried to sell any to his (Rick's) restaurant, and the farmer replied=20 no, because Rick is a "fish guy". This word "fish" would encompass=20 any creature which lives in water. He's not a "seafood guy" in UK=20 usage.
Having said that, I see that his restaurant is named "The Seafood=20 Restaurant".
=20
David
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
I seem to recall "seafood" being used to refer to shellfish and such, rather than fish fish (however you say that - "finned fish"?), in England. Is that still so?

Up to a point, it probably is. This is one of those threads where I've been asking myself what the terms means to me, and getting conflicting answers. But if someone said to me "What's seafood?" I'd start with shrimps, prawns, lobsters, crabs, and only later move on to varieties of fish.
A seafood restaurant, however, does mean fish. But that could be because we don't have many of those here, and I'm automatically thinking of seafood restaurants on the left side of the (herring-) pond.
I'm working round to an agreement with Areff. Seafood has the characteristic of being fresh from the sea (AmE ocean), whether it's shellfish or finned fish. It could have been frozen, but canned or pickled, no.

Katy Jennison
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Raymond S. Wise typed thus:

This is true (and congratulations for getting it right). The ... Michelangelo we were served a salad garnished with baby octopuses.

That's difficult to conceive for those of us living on a small island surrounded by fish (at least it used to be until we ate them all).[/nq]Of course seafood (proper AmE definition) is available at seafood restaurants in the Middle West (like one of Coop's favorites, "Red Lobster"), but it's been my observation that most Midwesterners are raised (as we sometimes say in AmE) with a very strong aversion to fish and shellfish and the like that generally exceeds what you find on, say, th'East Coast (Largest Coast in America), though I don't know from the West Coast (where, I've been told, fish tacos are popular and readily available).

This aversion, which I'm sure dates from the time when it took a few months to get some fresh fish from the ocean to the middle of the country, probably does not extend to the traditional tunafish sandwich, which tells you something. Note that the tunafish sandwich is a survivor from pre-modern (i.e., pre-VE-Day) times, similar to the early postwar BrE favourite, the SPAM(R) sandwich.

There's also the case, common enough, of the Midwesterner who moves to a Coast and then becomes totally enthusiastic about sushi.

Freck, we may have another definition of "the Midwest" in the works here. Beeack when you were in Pennsylvania, did you see anyone eat fish? Pennsylvania's sort of like the Midwest with hills, west of the mighty Susquehanna anyway.
As for the BrE, they gave us their batter-fried fish tradition. This survives (Coop, a patron of the Long John Silver chain I'm sure, can confirm this), but just barely. I believe it may live on to a greater extent in Southern and Southern-descended cultures.

One delicacy that, I've read, is very popular in the UK, namely, jellied fish of various sorts, has, I believe, never caught on in the US.
If it is an error, then it does seem to ... evidence, other than Richard's assertion, that it is an error.

Of course I'm relying on my linguistic intuition here, but I'm sure others share it.

Evidence other than Richard's assertion *or* his sureness about his intuition.
If I eat a tunafish sandwich, can I reasonably say "I ate seafood"? I don't think so. We know that people don't go to seafood restaurants expecting to find tunafish sandwiches on the menu.

People don't go to steak restaurants expecting to find steak sandwiches on the menu, either. I think this is more about sandwiches than about seafood. I would say that a tuna sandwich, a salmon sandwich, and a shrimp sandwich are all examples of seafood sandwiches.
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I think this is more about sandwiches than about seafood. I would say that a tuna sandwich, a salmon sandwich, and a shrimp sandwich are all examples of seafood sandwiches.

To me, "seafood sandwich" doesn't even seem like a recognized category. The term calls to mind an image of a "seafood salad" sandwich, BTAWNT.

I'd say that canned tuna, along with the decades-old tradition of the humble tunafish sandwich (involving jarred mayonnaise, at least), is so far removed even from basic notions of fishness that I'd hesitate to call a tunafish sandwich a "fish sandwich". Now, sure, you can take some grilled tuna or what-have-you and put it between two slices of bread, and then you have a "tuna sandwich" of a sort that is a "fish sandwich".

I think "fish sandwich" pretty much requires that the fish not have been canned, picked, smoked, or (for the British in the audience) jellied.
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canned, picked, smoked, or (for the British in the audience) jellied.

Er, I mean "canned, pickled, smoked, ...".
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