1 She lived in NY for two years since she divorced. (WRONG)
2 She lived in NY for two years after she divorced. (CORRECT)
3 She had lived in NY for two years since she divorced. (CORRECT)
I think that 1 is wrong because of "since". Do you agree?
2 and 3 are correct.
What's the difference between 2 and 3 (yet both are correct)?
TicceI think that 1 is wrong because of "since". Do you agree?
No. All of them seem to be all right to me.
Ticcedifference between 2 and 3
That depends on the context. As isolated sentences, I don't see a reason for the past perfect in 3. You need a preceding text that establishes an anchor situation in the past against which the past perfect would make more sense.
'since' is more commonly used than 'after' in these constructions, but the meaning is equivalent in this context.
CJ
1 2
Comments
I was told that 1 is wrong provided SINCE doesn't mean BECAUSE OF. If SINCE means BECAUSE OF then it's not wrong but it's out of my question.
As for 2 and 3 I was given this advice. If I just want to mention the fact of her living for two years then I should go with AFTER. But if, as you say, there is another action involved then SINCE.
But I have two more issues. For instance, if I say:
She lived in NY for 2 years after she divorced.
Isn't there potentially another action implied which is lined up to happen after the two years? Or does it not influence the sentence so that "since" be used?
Another issue.
He composed music for 10 years after he was ten. (Doesn't it sound awkward? )
He composed music for 10 years since he was ten. (supposedly wrong, as there is no third action)
So, what to do?
'since' that means 'because' (It's not 'because of', by the way) almost always comes at the beginning, and regardless of that, none of your examples contain a 'since' that means 'because'.
Even though 'since' doesn't mean 'because' in your example, the example is still OK. I disagree with whoever said the first sentence was wrong. As mentioned below, it may be awkward or less natural than other sentences, but that's not the same as wrong.
If you ask five people for advice, you may get five (or more) different suggestions. Ultimately it's up to you to evaluate these various bits of advice and decide for yourself how to proceed.
I don't know what other action could be implied. She lived in NY for two years. This two-year period was after she divorced. I don't see any other action implied. There are of course all kinds of actions she did before, during, and after she lived in NY and before and after she divorced, but none of those are implied by the words of the sentence.
Yes. All these sentences with a combination of for {period of time} and after/since {point in time} seem awkward.
I don't know what this third action is that you think you need, and I don't see how this third action is supposed to fix the sentence. The sentence is awkward in the same way as the previous one is, but I wouldn't say that it's grammatically wrong. There are hundreds of sentences that are grammatically correct but not used because they are awkward and/or because they don't make a lot of sense.
CJ
Thank you.
1 By the third action I mean this:
Since he graduated from a music college he had composed music for 10 years until he got married. (CORRECT)
1 graduation 2 composing 3 marrying
Your words: "You need a preceding text that establishes an anchor situation in the past against which the past perfect would make more sense." - I think you meant a third action/or a point in time.
2 You say that "All these sentences with a combination of for {period of time} and after/since {point in time} seem awkward."
But think of it, how else can this idea be conveyed if the need arises? What if I have to point out for how long something lasted?
So, how is it POSSIBLE to convey this idea?
He composed music for 10 years since he was ten. ????? (I must POINT OUT 10 years' period)
I looked up this grammatical pattern on fraze.it, and it's more common than I thought. Here are some examples I found:
She has lived in Freeport for 28 years since moving from the Dominican Republic.
We've been friends for 10 years, since college, and we've grown closer with age.
He has been a Giants employee for 53 years, since the club came to San Francisco.
Squire has lived in Midvale for 55 years, since she married her second husband.
I have practiced employment law in Charlotte for 39 years since leaving the Army.
Anna has played piano since first grade, and has composed music for seven years.
In some cases above, the comma shows more clearly that the for-phrase and the since-phrase are referencing the same period of time.
CJ
Jim, thank you one more time, but it's a different pattern. I am after "the past perfect" or "past simple".
Here are the searches from fraze.it that I use to find these patterns.
In these cases you need to go through the sentences that are found, one by one, to determine if they have the kind of 'since' and 'for' that you are interested in. So I examined the first 100 sentences in each of two searches to find the sentences below. Not all of them will necessarily be exactly what you were looking for. You can't specify exactly in which clause of the sentence you wish to see one tense or another. When you do your own research, you can select what interests you more precisely, and in the future, I'll be counting on you to do your own research on these.
since for /t:pap past perfect examples
Firstrust had used AXA for 25 years and has been owned by Firstrust since 2006.
They had not been out of contact for this long since his accident a year earlier.
Abby Borden had been Lizzie's stepmother for 30 years, since she was 2 years old.
It had held this policy for over a century, since the end of the Napoleonic Wars.
Jones's music since the mid-1950s, had only been in line for a couple of hours.
Navalny had been in stop-and-go mode since 2009, and remained ambiguous for months.
She'd had a membership for months but hadn't logged on since she'd signed up.
Cook, 51, had been the police chief since 2000 and worked for the city for 27 years.
Page had been vice chair for a year, while Reckhow had chaired the board since 2002.
Before today, oil had climbed for nine days, the longest winning stretch since July.
The index had been at 13 for the past two months, the lowest level since March 2009.
since for /t:spa simple past examples
For all of 2010, profits climbed 29 percent, the biggest annual gain since 1948.
The loss has lingered for three weeks since the Red Wings last played the Blues.
I've heard it ever since I was a child, and I've believed it for nearly as long.
Republicans have occupied the White House for 21 of the 33 years since he wrote.
Since then, the district has grown in population for 15 straight years, he said.
As you see, there were a lot more with the past perfect than with the simple past. I can't say how significant that is. Maybe not at all.
CJ
Jim, I am sorry to have prompted you to go to the trouble of gathering all those examples. I appreciate it, nonetheless. But it's a big chunk of information. Let me take only one sentence from it to illustrate the issue one more time:
Abby Borden had been Lizzie's stepmother for 30 years, since she was 2 years old.
My main question is this: in what context would be fitting to say:
Abby Borden had been Lizzie's stepmother for 30 years, since she was 2 years old.
and in what context would be fitting to say:
Abby Borden was Lizzie's stepmother for 30 years, since she was 2 years old.