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If I had not money, I would be in trouble.
=>Without money, I would be in trouble. (i.e. If ...ed not=Without)

Then, is this rewriting also possible?

If I had money, I wouldn't be in trouble like this.
=>With money, I wouldn't be in trouble like this. (i.e. If ...ed=With)

Theoretically, it may be possible. But I kind of feel uncomfortable using 'with' as subjunctive. I cannot detect in 'with' the feel of 'unreality' or 'impossibleness' that the subjunctive mood has...
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Hi,

Theoretically ..... possible. But I kind of feel uncomfortable using 'with' as subjunctive. I cannot detect in 'with' the feel of 'unreality' or 'impossibleness' that the subjunctive mood has...

Yeah, I agree with you.

It's not the sort of thing we'd say very much, which contributes to its oddness.

Clive
I wonder whether it's the example, rather than the structure:

1. I'd be lost without you.
2. I don't know what I'd do, without my iPod.
3. Where would we be, without tv?

It seems to have a slightly more emotional air than the subjunctive. (Maybe that's why we don't hear it as often.)

MrP
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Thank you, Clive.

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MrP,

'An emotional air'. Interesting.

But all of your examples are about 'without ...' Do you agree with me that you don't usually use 'with...' as 'If S had...'?
Yes, it does seem rarer.

1. "With hindsight, I would have answered differently."

2. "If I had known then what I know now, I would have answered differently."

Hmm. Is it a direct "with clause"/"subjunctive" exchange, though?

MrP
Hello there,
This question is complicated from the outset, so I hope it wouldn't add to much trouble if I butt in here. I'm wondering whether {without X} could be considered as a trigger of Negative/Positive Polarity Items. Its common property, I think, can be demonstrated as follows:

..................................................................................
[1] Without X, he can solve the toughest puzzle.

> He can solve ANY puzzle without X.
[2] Without X, he cannot solve the easiest puzzle.

> He cannot solve ANY puzzle without X.

[3] (?) With X, he can solve the toughest puzzle.
[4] (?) With X, he cannot solve the easiest puzzle.

A quantificational reading (such as 'ANY puzzle') is not available in [3] and [4].
..................................................................................

Now I'm trying to understand Taka's original question in terms of Polarity sensitivity. I'm not sure still whether it's the proper way, though. Thank you all for your intriguing discussion as always.
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Hello Rho
[3] (?) With X, he can solve the toughest puzzle.
[4] (?) With X, he cannot solve the easiest puzzle.

A quantificational reading (such as 'ANY puzzle') is not available in [3] and [4].
That's an interesting point. But couldn't we say that "the toughest puzzle" implies "any puzzle in #3"?

Your examples also demonstrate that "with/without" can stand in place of a non-subjunctive conditional:

1. If he has X, he can solve the toughest puzzle.
2. If he doesn't have X, he cannot solve the easiest puzzle.

MrP
Hello MrPedantic, yep, you are quite right!
Then {with X} and {without X} (should?) have the same status, in principle, as expressions which set some 'condition.'

Then we have to seek purely 'pragmatic' explanations to account for the oddity, as you and Clive did. (I won't disagree!)

I'm studying now about these matters, I haven't read about relations between {without X} and {subjunctive/hypothetical conditions} so far -- although my knowledge is fairly limitted, I have to add. Seems quite interesting. If I find something I'd like to make some post.

Sorry Taka, for my interruption!
Hello guys

This question is interesting.

My dictionaries give an explanation to the use of subjunctive mood after a <without …> phrase but not after a <with …> phrase. However, some writers indeed used a <with …> phrase as a substitute for an unreal conditional clause “if there were …” or "if subject had ...".

"On the other side of the railway a horseman galloped up, shouting to me and waving his hand. He was scarcely forty yards off. With a rifle, I could have killed him easily" (Winston Spencer Churchill; "London to Ladysmith via Pretoria")

"With a little bit of professional help, I think this could have been a great book. An experienced editor could have helped him smooth his narrative and plot and make the story more cohesive." (Lynn Nicole Louis; A review on "Immortal: A Linking of Souls" by D. E. Davidson.)

paco
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