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Does "Khan" sound the same as well? Stewart.

For a British English pronunciation model for this word, I recommend Coleridge's fine poem with clear rhymes: In Xanadu did Kubla Khan A stately pleasure dome decree, Where Alph the sacred river ran Through caverns measureless to man Down to a sunless sea.

That may well represent Coleridge's pronunciation (though I suspect his era was not above eye-rhymes), and some British accents, but it does not work in modern RP, where Khan is /kAn/.

In terms of the "lexical sets" of Wells's book ... "short o") THOUGHT is on its own (the "aw" sound)

I've noticed that some people pronounce the 'l' in 'almond'. Guess that's either a sixth set or a special case..

It is simply a spelling pronunciation.
Other people pronounce the /t/ in "often". Go figure.

Polik.
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
Other people pronounce the /t/ in "often". Go figure.

Ah, but that's the 'normal' pronunciation AFAIC. AIH different dictionaries give different views on this.
Stewart.
In many American accents, the LOT/PALM vowel can sound to my ears like my TRAP/BATH vowel.

That would be ErkE and closely related dialects of the Upper Midwest and Inland North.

On The Power of Nightmares , on BBC2 last night, there was a lawyer who may have been from Detroit (he was representing people who lived there). At one point he said "solid", except that it sounded to me exactly like "salad", which didn't make a lot of sense in the context. It took me a few seconds to work out what he had said.

I think the second vowel was also relevant - for me "solid" and "salad" are ('sA.lId) and ('[email protected]) respectively.
Jonathan
Is that true in Britain? In renegade dialects, as Richard ... were they CLOTH words in Britain? They are for me.

It's very confusing to discuss the pronunciation of words bycomparing them with other words that may also vary in pronunciation between one accent and the next.

Well, some linguists seem to like it this guy Wells, anyway. But I don't know his reasons.
What about using IPA for clarity?

Okay, does anyone know whether "dog" is /dOg/ in Britain, perhaps in "renegade" dialects or old-fashioned RP (the kind where "cloth" is /klOT/)? And what about "long", "strong", etc. are or were they pronounced with /O/? They are for me.

Jerry Friedman
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
For a British English pronunciation model for this word, I ... Through caverns measureless to man Down to a sunless sea.

The same poem rhymes: slanted, enchanted, haunted forced, burst ever, river far, war dulcimer, saw, Abora Poets have funny notions about what makes a rhyme.

I'm fairly sure that I've read things that suggest that "haunted" would have rhymed with "slanted" etc., at least for some speakers. The same may apply to some of the others.
As for the quoted verse, I can pronounce "Khan" to rhyme with "ran" and "man", though I can also pronounce it like "Kahn".

Jonathan
That would be ErkE and closely related dialects of the UpperMidwest and Inland North.

On The Power of Nightmares , on BBC2 last night, there was alawyer who may have been from Detroit ... said. I think the second vowel was also relevant - for me "solid" and "salad" are ('sA.lId) and ('[email protected]) respectively.

Glad he didn't get onto Saladin.
Mike.
The same poem rhymes: slanted, enchanted, haunted forced, burst ever, river far, war dulcimer, saw, Abora Poets have funny notions about what makes a rhyme.

I'm fairly sure that I've read things that suggest that "haunted" would have rhymed with "slanted" etc., at least for ... quoted verse, I can pronounce "Khan" to rhyme with "ran" and "man", though I can also pronounce it like "Kahn".

Rime isn't mathematical. There are rules to start from, of course; but when you're good enough you can move on. Look at the astounding rhymed prose of the Qur'an, for example: even Arab Christians find it bewitching.
Mike.
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies

Other people pronounce the /t/ in "often". Go figure.

Ah, but that's the 'normal' pronunciation AFAIC. AIH different dictionaries give different views on this.

Most of the following refer to American dictionaries:

MWCD11 gives the /t/-silent version first. It then gives the /t/-pronounced version with an obelus preceding it (for the obelus they use the division sign, ). This means that although they find it to be used by educated people, it remains a controversial usage.
The *Encarta World English Dictionary,* North American ed., does not list the /t/-pronounced version.
The *Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary gives the /t/-pronounced version as the British pronunciation, the /t/-silent pronunciation as the US pronunciation.
The Cambridge Dictionary of American English gives the /t/-silent version as the first pronunciation and the /t/-pronounced version as the second one. The dictionary at www.infoplease.com does the same (it has two pronunciations of each version, with two different vowels sounds used to represent the pronunciation of the ).
The Oxford-Hachette French Dictionary gives the non-/t/-pronunciation first, the /t/pronunciation second, and follows that with a non/t/-pronunciation with a different sound for the for the US version.

*The Century Dictionary,* an American dictionary of 1895, has only the /t/-silent pronunciation. This means that either the /t/-pronounced version was unknown to the editors or they disapproved of it, and so did not include it.
It looks like the odd man out in the above is the *Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary.* I wonder, however, if they left out the British /t/-silent version to keep the matter simple for their intended audience, students of English as a second language.
The /t/-pronounced version is a spelling pronunciation in American English. I expect that further research will show that it is a spelling pronunciation in British English as well, that is, that the word was for centuries pronounced without the /t/ (compare "soften") and the spelling pronunciation arose sometime in the late 19th century or the early 20th century.

For regular members of the newsgroup sci.lang : Is there any consensus about whether the "artic" pronunciation of "arctic" has been in continuous use since the Middle English "artik," or, alternately, whether the pronunciation of the first has dropped out on more than one occasion in the history of English?

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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