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Okay, does anyone know whether "dog" is /dOg/ in Britain, perhaps in "renegade" dialects or old-fashioned RP (the kind where "cloth" is /klOT/)?

The Concise Oxford English Dictionary Eighth Edition ( COD8 ) states in its introduction that it bases its pronunciations on traditional Received Pronunciation, which could be called old-fashioned. Later Oxford dictionaries say that they represent more modern speech.
COD8 shows (dA.g) and (klA.T).
And what about "long", "strong", etc. are or were they pronounced with /O/? They are for me.

COD8 shows (lA.N) and (strA.N). It has (sO:) for "saw" and (sO:(r)) for "sore".
But The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary ( NSOED ), which states that it follows modern speech, has the same vowels in those words.
In fact, the only pronunciation differences I've noticed between COD8 and NSOED are between the earlier use of (I) and the later use of (i) in the "ing" suffix; and between Emotion: dog and (a) for the vowel in "cat". But I suppose there could be others I haven't noticed yet.
Another thing to think about is that (O) and (A.) are both back, rounded vowels, and they're not greatly far apart on the IPA Vowels chart (
http://www2.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/vowels.html ). (On that chart our ASCII IPA (O) and {A.) are shown as IPA "reverse C" and upside down script "a", respectively.) (O) is open mid and (A.) is open. There's no reason I know of that some people could not have a vowel that is between the two, so that it might be transcribed as either one. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that someone pronounces both "saw" and "long" with the same vowel and that that vowel is midway between (O) and (A.).
Note that I've used square brackets where most other people in alt.usage.english (AUE) use slashes. I believe square brackets are to be used in discussing how sounds are pronounced, while slashes are appropriate for discussions of, say, contrastive distribution. I believe that most of the occurrences of slashes for discussing pronunciation in AUE are in error.
Incidentally, I've tried to think of a pair to illustrate contrastive distribution between the phonemes /O/ and /A./. I've finally thought of "sot" and "sought", which are homophones in my idiolect, but are pronounced (sA.t) and (sO:t), respectively, in NSOED . What are some others?
On The Power of Nightmares , on BBC2 last night, there was a lawyer who may have been from ... a lot of sense in the context. It took me a few seconds to work out what he had said.

Maybe he was from Chicago. We have been told that there are Chicagoans who pronounce "cot" (kA:t) like other people's "cat" (k&t).
I once had firsthand experience with a native of Chicago who sounded to me like she was saying "cat" for "cot". However, I was unable to imitate her pronunciation to her
satisfaction.
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Okay, does anyone know whether "dog" is /dOg/ in Britain, perhaps in "renegade" dialects or old-fashioned RP (the kind where "cloth" is /klOT/)?

The Concise Oxford English Dictionary Eighth Edition ( COD8 ) states in its introduction that it bases its pronunciations ... be called old-fashioned. Later Oxford dictionaries say that they represent more modern speech. COD8 shows (dA.g) and (klA.T).

My sense is that the "orff" version of RP is older than "traditional" RP.
(O) is open mid and (A.) is open. There's no reason I know of that some people could not have ... someone pronounces both "saw" and "long" with the same vowel and that that vowel is midway between (O) and (A.).

Sparky, is this not a retreat from your long-held position that any pronounced vowel is absolutely classifiable as either one IPA vowel or t'other, but not both? My recollection, which may be faulty, is that you once contended that a vowel could not be "between", say, (A.) and (O).
Incidentally, I've tried to think of a pair to illustrate contrastive distribution between the phonemes /O/ and /A./. I've finally ... are homophones in my idiolect, but are pronounced (sA.t) and (sO:t), respectively, in NSOED . What are some others?

sot sought
cot caught
clod clawed
sod sawed
Otto auto
odd awed
not nought
knotty naughty
yon yawn
tot taught
tock talk
sock Salk, Sauk
stock stalk
slotter slaughter
rot wrought
Polly Paulie
pod pawed
nod gnawed
mod Maude
moll maul, (AmE) mall
mom Maugham
Lon lawn
chock chalk
*** caulk
hottie haughty
on awn
holler hauler
hock hawk
don dawn
bot bought
brat(wurst) brought
dotter daughter

Steny '08!
On The Power of Nightmares , on BBC2 last ... a few seconds to work out what he had said.

Maybe he was from Chicago. We have been told that there are Chicagoans who pronounce "cot" (kA:t) like other people's "cat" (k&t).

Indeed there are. But it is also found throughout the Upper Midwest and Inland North (including Western Connecticut), including the Detroit Region (probably mainly the ring of suburbs surrounding Detroit rather than Detroit Proper).
I once had firsthand experience with a native of Chicago who sounded to me like she was saying "cat" for "cot". However, I was unable to imitate her pronunciation to her satisfaction.

Chicago "cot" is like a shorter version of Non-rhotic Boston or Common Australian "cart". It's a peculiar thing about Upper Midwesterners (including Inland Northerners, including Western Inland New Englanders) that they cannot accept the fact that they have non-normative, deviant accents. Jeez, you don't have to take my word for it. Check the AUE Archives for the discussion that ensued when Erk (a speaker of ErkE) recorded a bit of his own pronunciation.

Steny '08!
For regular members of the newsgroup sci.lang : Is there any consensus about whether the "artic" pronunciation of "arctic" has ... whether the pronunciation of the first has dropped out on more than one occasion in the history of English?

Ralph Vaughan Williams wrote the music for the movie "Scott of the Antarctic." He later reused the material in a work called "Sinfonia Antartica."

Peter T. Daniels (Email Removed)
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Chicago "cot" is like a shorter version of Non-rhotic Boston or Common Australian "cart".

To my ear, traditional Bostonian "cart" is the same pronunciation as my "cat".
In 1942, shortly after I arrived at the U.S. Maritime Service Radio School on Gallups Island in outer Boston harbor, I spent a little time trying to find a man named "Mr Catter" whom I had been told to see about something.

Turned out the man's name was "Carter" and the man who told me to see him was a Bostonian.
4 Nov 2004 10:42:15 -0800: "jerry (Email Removed)": in sci.lang:
Okay, does anyone know whether "dog" is /dOg/ in Britain, perhaps in "renegade" dialects or old-fashioned RP (the kind where "cloth" is /klOT/)? And what about "long", "strong", etc. are or were they pronounced with /O/? They are for me.

dog /dOg/
cloth /klOT/ or /klO:T/
long /lON/
strong /strON/
(from memory, and confirmed from by dictionary).
Nothing renegade of specially RP about it. AFAIK they're like this everywhere in the world except maybe the US and Canada. What else than this could the pronunciation be?

Ruud Harmsen - http://rudhar.com
Bob Cunningham filted:
In 1942, shortly after I arrived at the U.S. Maritime Service Radio School on Gallups Island in outer Boston harbor, ... something. Turned out the man's name was "Carter" and the man who told me to see him was a Bostonian.

My own best experience with misheard names was trying to find a woman named "Benchman" and discovering she was actually "Benjamin"..

Not a patch on a high-school friend of mine who was introduced to Mr Wilmuth and called him "Mr Woman"..r
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
Indeed there are. But it is also found throughout the Upper Midwest and Inland North (including Western Connecticut), including the Detroit Region (probably mainly the ring of suburbs surrounding Detroit rather than Detroit Proper).

These discussions always puzzle me. I lived in Chicago for a number of years, and I just can't imagine how the word "cot" is used enough to be established as a speech marker. I can only think of two uses: a canvas and wood bed and a latex protective device slipped over a finger. Neither one came up in the conversations I recall having in Chicago.
I was a bachelor for the first few years I spent in Chicago. During that time, I slept on regular beds, the floor, couches, pull-out sleeping couches, Murphy beds, and - at least one night - in a bathtub. I never slept on a cot, and never asked anyone if they had a spare cot around to crash on.
Physicians used finger cots for certain unpleasant examinations, but they - the cots - were not topics of conversation. Even if describing the unpleasant examination, one wasn't likely to bring the cot detail into the discussion.
So..how did you do your research on the pronunciation of "cot"? Since you could go longer without hearing "cot" in a regular conversation than that guy has gone without missing a winning night on "Jeopardy", how did you swing the conversation around to "cot" to see if sounded like "cat"? Did you trick the people into using "cot"? Did you carry around flash cards with pictures of camp beds or latex sheaths and ask people to identify them?
You say the usage extends through the entire Upper Midwest and Inland North. No wonder you didn't enjoy your sojourn in Chicago. You must have spent your non-*** hours roaming around the country trying to work "cot" into conversations. I can see you stopping at some fish camp general store in Wisconsin and asking the proprietor if had any thin rubber finger sheaths in stock and hoping he'd say "We don't stock cats."
Perhaps this is why you didn't like Chicago pizza. You'd order a pie and ask the server if you could take a short nap while you were waiting for your order in hopes they'd say "Sure. We have a cot in the back". Hell, they probably served you raw pizza just to get you out of the joint quickly.
You might have enjoyed Chicago more had you decided to research the pronunciation of "beer" or "Vienna All-Beef" or "alewife" or even "thuringer". If you've got a thing for three letter words, how about "Sox"? I'm sure there are "Socks" people and "Sacks" people.
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