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These discussions always puzzle me. I lived in Chicago for ... if they had a spare cot around to crash on.

I slept on a cot in the Boy Scouts and in the Army last time in early '59.

My army had bunks. We never went on maneuvers in Chicago.
My army had bunks. We never went on maneuvers in Chicago.

We had bunks at Fort Ord (Basic) and Fort Belvoir (Map School) but individual cots in Germany, in one of Hitler's Panzer Division barracks. Nice buildings they were.

dg (domain=ccwebster)
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Okay, does anyone know whether "dog" is /dOg/ in Britain, ... or were they pronounced with /O/? They are for me.

dog /dOg/ cloth /klOT/ or /klO:T/ long /lON/ strong /strON/ (from memory, and confirmed from by dictionary). Nothing renegade of ... like this everywhere in the world except maybe the US and Canada. What else than this could the pronunciation be?

Are you using a dictionary that uses /O/ for the "cot" vowel? All modern British dictionaries that I'm aware of that use IPA use /A./ (or (A.), if the transcriptions are phonetic rather than phonemic). (1)
The point is that there in some words (e.g. "cloth", "dog", "off", "long", "strong", "coffee") speakers of British English tend to use the "cot" vowel, /A./, while speakers of American English tend to use the "caught" vowel (which British dictionaries usually call /O:/, but Peter would call /Oh/, I think). (2)
In at least some of these words, however, there's an old-fashioned southern BrE pronunciation which follows AmE, which is why your dictionary has "cloth" with and without the length mark. Jerry's question is whether this applied/applies to "long" and "strong" too. I don't know the answer.
(1) (A.) is "turned script a", low back rounded vowel

(2) Of course in some accents, on both sides of the Atlantic, the "cot" and "caught" vowels are the same.
Jonathan
Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:05:31 -00: "Jonathan Jordan"
Are you using a dictionary that uses /O/ for the "cot" vowel?

The late Daniel Jones did.
All modern British dictionaries that I'm aware of that use IPA use /A./ (or (A.), if the transcriptions are phonetic rather than phonemic). (1)

Minute difference, only of phonetic relevance, so for a phonemic representation, /O/ does the job fine.
The point is that there in some words (e.g. "cloth", "dog", "off", "long", "strong", "coffee") speakers of British English tend ... tend to use the "caught" vowel (which British dictionaries usually call /O:/, but Peter would call /Oh/, I think). (2)

The British based Oxford Concise also mention /klO:T/ as an alternative pronunciation of the word 'cloth'.
(1) (A.) is "turned script a", low back rounded vowel

There is a sound like that in the Dutch dialect of the region where I grew up, and it is also in Hungarian, but neither sounds anything like the British /O/ vowel.

Ruud Harmsen - http://rudhar.com
Rime isn't mathematical.

yet nor is it erratical.
There are rules to start from, of course; but when you're good enough you can move on. Look at the astounding

and resounding
rhymed prose of the Qur'an, for example:

as just a sample
even Arab Christians find it bewitching.

and quite enriching.

Ross Howard
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
Where are you hearing Americans, then?

Peter T. Daniels (Email Removed)
The /t/-pronounced version is a spelling pronunciation in American English. ... in the late 19th century or the early 20th century.

More likely that the t-less version is the more modern and probably came from the aristocracy's habit, at one time, of leavin' out letters.

"leavin'" is not an example of leaving out letters. It's substituting an alveolar for a velar nasal.

Peter T. Daniels (Email Removed)
Are you using a dictionary that uses /O/ for the "cot" vowel? All modern British dictionaries that I'm aware of that use IPA use /A./ (or (A.), if the transcriptions are phonetic rather than phonemic). (1)

(Never mind, Cunningham will never understand. Yet he keeps crossposting his confusion to sci.lang.)
The point is that there in some words (e.g. "cloth", "dog", "off", "long", "strong", "coffee") speakers of British English tend ... tend to use the "caught" vowel (which British dictionaries usually call /O:/, but Peter would call /Oh/, I think). (2)

Just /O/ I don't think there's a contrast that /Oh/ is needed for in AmE. (It might serve for the distinction you're talking about in BrE, though: /O/ for "cot" and /Oh/ for "caught".) (In the non-(2) areas, "cot" is /a/ as in "father" and "caught" is /O/.)
In at least some of these words, however, there's an old-fashioned southern BrE pronunciation which follows AmE, which is why ... (2) Of course in some accents, on both sides of the Atlantic, the "cot" and "caught" vowels are the same.

Peter T. Daniels (Email Removed)
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
Rap on, bro!
Mike.
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