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/tS/*, universal speak Could well have been for all I ... /dekImi:/ or /desImi:/; "decem" always /dekem/, and /ae/ usually /aI/.

Back when Latin was the learned language of Europe, each country pronounced it as if it were the local language. That's how you get "/desImi:/" (originally "/desimai/"?)

I think it was; there is an older pronunciation still of Latin in Britain which seems to have been replaced in schools sometime in the mid-20th century with the current pseudo-archaic one, some teachers now go so far as to insist on /w/ for the letter V.
cf "Cave" (from Latin for "beware", used at school for "teacher's coming!") which was /keIvi:/ at my school (early 1990s), not /kA:veI/ like we were taught to say in "cave canem" etc. Perhaps this is a relic of the old pronunciation (back to the days when school was taught in Latin even?)
in England and "/de:tSimi:/" in
Italian. The RattweillerLOL

may well have said "/detsimi:/" as a jugend:
I have a record of Catulli CarminaI'd say /k&'tu:li: kA:'mi:[email protected]/. Never heard of it though.

Edmund
Could well have been for all I know. (That was ... /dekImi:/ or /desImi:/; "decem" always /dekem/, and /ae/ usually /aI/.

Back when Latin was the learned language of Europe, each country pronounced it as if it were the local language. ... Catulli Carmina sung by a German choir in their national accent. And of course "/dekimi:/" is Kikero's version

My dad was taught a different pronunciation than the one I was taught (both of us in Latvian schools). His Latin "c" (in the 1920s) was a "ts", mine (ca. 1948) was a "k".

Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Students: We have free audio pronunciation exercises.
To my ear and understanding, more so than John Paul II's. (John Paul's II? Or no "s" at all...? Uh.)

JP 2.
Charles Riggs
There are no accented letters in my email address.
Edmund Lewis filted:
I think it was; there is an older pronunciation still of Latin in Britain which seems to have been replaced ... Perhaps this is a relic of the old pronunciation (back to the days when school was taught in Latin even?)

The present school of thought would have it that Caesar stood up and yelled "Wenny widdy wicky!"...historically accurate, maybe, but it just don't seem right..r
To my ear and understanding, more so than John Paul II's. (John Paul's II? Or no "s" at all...? Uh.)

JP 2.

Sounds like a sequel. Actually, it sounds like an obscure reference to my old landlord.

Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless pit" with "silverhelm"
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Skitt put finger to keyboard in this fashion:
My dad was taught a different pronunciation than the one I was taught (both of us in Latvian schools). His Latin "c" (in the 1920s) was a "ts", mine (ca. 1948) was a "k".

I have heard Latin c pronounced as ts in choral works recorded in Eastern Europe.

David
==
replace usenet with the
of

It sounds as if you were taught the traditional British pronunciation of Latin. From what I have read, this was generally replaced (except in Catholic schools, I take it) in Britain in the late 19th, early 20th century by the Reconstructed Classical pronunciation that's the scholarly name for the "pseudo-archaic" version to which you refer. In the 1939 version of "Goodbye, Mr. Chips," the title character expresses distaste at the "Wenny weedy weeky" pronunciation of "Veni, vidi, vici" that he is being told to teach.
The Pope would, of course, use the Ecclesiastical Latin (Church Latin) pronunciation.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Skitt put finger to keyboard in this fashion:

My dad was taught a different pronunciation than the one ... 1920s) was a "ts", mine (ca. 1948) was a "k".

I have heard Latin c pronounced as ts in choral works recorded in Eastern Europe.

It's standard in the German-speaking countries, and British (and US?) singers often use it for e.g. Mozart and Haydn settings of the Mass: "excelsis" become "ex-tsel-siss" where official RC Church Latin has something like "egg-shell-seece". In this pronunciation, "qui" is "kvee", and the g is always hard. Vowels are noticeably different, too. France also has its own version, with nasal -um in "Dominum" and so on. The official RC version is distinctly Italianate, but seems a second-best choice even for church choirs in predominantly Catholic countries outside Italy: the desired uniformity hasn't been achieved..
The recordings that form part of the Cambridge Latin Course use the neo-classical consonants (c = k etc) but strongly Italianate "pure" vowels (e.g. the final vowel of "domine" is as in "net", not the UK/US diphthong as in "hay").
Alan Jones
Students: Are you brave enough to let our tutors analyse your pronunciation?
... but his Italian is actually flawless. To my ear and understanding, more so than John Paul II's. (John Paul's II? Or no "s" at all...? Uh.)

In informal use you can attach 's to the end of pretty much any phrase used as a noun, so it's definitely "John Paul II's". In formal use it's best to avoid such possessives altogether and say "than that of John Paul II".
Here's a fairly extreme example: "The man I went to see in the building next door to the dentist's office on Bloor Street's handwriting was hard to read." Mind you, lots of people wouldn't* say that sort of thing, or they'd find it ugly; but if you *did say it, and got the inflection right, people would understand.
Mark Brader "...we are now uniquely privileged to sit side by side Toronto with the giants on whose shoulders we stand." (Email Removed) Gerald Holton

My text in this article is in the public domain.
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