re: They're All Retarded page 3

I use different vowels in "court" and "coronation".

So do I: "coronation" and "coroner" have the British "cot" vowel /A./, apparently not present in most versions of AmE.
Alan Jones

wrote: GenAms

I use different vowels in "court" and "coronation".

So do I: "coronation" and "coroner" have the British "cot" vowel /A./, apparently not present in most versions of AmE.

I use the CINC AmE "cot" vowel in "coroner", but this is also the CINC AmE "cart" vowel.

GenAms So do I: "coronation" and "coroner" have the British "cot" vowel /A./, apparently not present in most versions of AmE.

I use the CINC AmE "cot" vowel in "coroner", but this is also the CINC AmE "cart" vowel.

I don't think so. Not quite. Non-rhotic CINC, maybe.

rzed

wrote: GenAms

I use different vowels in "court" and "coronation".

So do I: "coronation" and "coroner" have the British "cot" vowel /A./, apparently not present in most versions of AmE.

The "aw" vowel I use in "caught", "court" and "water" also doesn't seem to be present in AmE. I heard an American ateempting (with great difficulty) to pronounce "water" the South African way. In his native (Pennsylvania?) accent he said something like "wahdr".

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Friedman)

I use the CINC AmE "cot" vowel in "coroner", but this is also the CINC AmE "cart" vowel.

I don't think so. Not quite. Non-rhotic CINC, maybe.

Phonemically, I mean. You don't have ah/short-o merger? Most, if not all, AmE rhotic (as well as non-rhotic) CINCs do. My "cot" and "cart" allophones are different "cart" is further back but they're still ah/short-o in both cases.
In "coroner" the allophone for me is the same as car/cart. I don't seem to have the "cot" allophone before /r/, BINS.
I'm not sure how it is in non-rhotic CINC AmE accents. I still don't know whether, for example, some or all New York non-rhotics have cot/cart merger, and I grew up around people with such an accent. (My intuition is that there's a vowel length difference at least, in the case of cot/cart. I'm not sure if this also applies to cod/card.)

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So then, what are the people called who actually do determine the cause of death of actual dead people. And what further work do the coroners have left for them to file the death certificate in the correct drawer?
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.

> So then, what are the people called who actually do determine the cause of death of actual dead people.

A pathologist, who is a specialist medical doctor.

And what further work do the coroners have left for them to file the death certificate in the correct drawer?

This is my understanding - Don will no doubt correct me if I stray from the truth:
If a person dies in the UK whilst under the care of a GP or hospital doctor who "knows" the cause of death, then that doctor certifies the death. The vast majority of death certificates are of this nature.

If the death is sudden or suspicious or accidental then there will most likely be an autopsy, performed by a pathologist, and the death will be reported to the coroner. The coroner may call an inquest at which the pathologist will give evidence. The coroner sits in a quasi-judicial capacity and hears evidence from medics, but also from those who last saw the deceased, the police, any others who may have relevant testimony. Sometimes there is a jury, but not always - I don't know what determines this.
What the coroner's court decides can be important to those who remain, even if the actual cause of death is clear. For example, somebody may appear to have killed himself, but the verdict may not be suicide if the court accepts that was not his intention, but that he was suffering from depression. This could also affect life insurance claims.

David
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Does exactly what it says on the tin.

Don't coroners' courts also determine the disposition of treasure trove?

Don't coroners' courts also determine the disposition of treasure trove?

Nearly. IIUC the coroner's court determines whether a find is treasure trove, or just some stuff which was lying around.

David
==
Does exactly what it says on the tin.