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Steve MacGregor filted:
* restaurant: an establishment that sells meals, or vaguely meal-like items, such as hamburgers. * real restaurant; sit-down restaurant: a ... bag. Often has a drive-by window. Examples: McDonald's®, Wendy's®, Whataburger®, Burger King®, Jack-in-the-Box®, Rally's®, Kyoto Bowl®, Shogun Express®, Pizza Hut®.

We require more differentia...a cafeteria is a "restaurant with no waiters", as is a "buffet", but I wouldn't call either a "fast-food restaurant"....

I would also bar Church's® Fried Chicken from the category, because despite the presence of an ordering counter and a drive-up (not "drive-by") window, nothing about the place is "fast"....r
I really fail to see any problem with McDs labeling ... stand where food is served but no seating is provided.

I think a McDonald's is a "fast-food restaurant" but not arestaurant proper, which is a sit-down restaurant.

You can sit down at notre MacDo. I think what we're doing is trying to turn "restaurant" into a value term, which it isn't. It doesn't mean anything like "good eating-house", or "eating-house I wouldn't mind people seeing me in".
I'm not even convinced that it means "eating-house where there's a relatively wide range of recipes available à la carte" a definition which would indeed exclude hamburger joints, chippies, etc. It certainly doesn't exclude places which allow the food to be taken away: many classic restaurants will arrange that for you.

What I think is a point of agreement is that "Let's have lunch at a restaurant" would not be understood to include "Let's go to a hamburger joint". But "Let's go to the theatre" wouldn't be heard as "Let's go to the flicks", either. But a cinema is a theatre.

Mike.
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I really fail to see any problem with McDs labeling ... stand where food is served but no seating is provided.

I think a McDonald's is a "fast-food restaurant" but not a restaurant proper, which is a sit-down restaurant.

We know that by now. It's that "proper" thing that is in the eye of the beholder.
Is a buffet or a cafeteria a proper restaurant? You are served while standing, but sit down to eat.
Never mind. I don't really want to know.
I think a McDonald's is a "fast-food restaurant" but not a restaurant proper, which is a sit-down restaurant.

We know that by now. It's that "proper" thing that is in the eye of the beholder. Is a buffet or a cafeteria a proper restaurant? You are served while standing, but sit down to eat.

Interesting that you use "buffet" to mean "putative restaurant featuring a buffet". I think RHD also just so used it. This doesn't work in my dialect; I'd speak of a "buffet restaurant", maybe. Isn't the buffet the thing that has all the different kinds of food on it that you go up to?

Yes, I consider such restaurants, if we have the same sort of place in mind, to be restaurants proper.
Cafeterias I'm not so sure. Some of them approach being restaurantlike.
Never mind. I don't really want to know.

Too late!

Steny '08!
to "restaurant"

As at any Mickey Dees I've ever seen. But that's not what makes a sit-down restaurant the same. A sit-down restaurant is one where someone makes some pretense of taking your order when you sit down. This is so even for the informal buffet places that I believe Coop was referring to.
I think what we're doing is trying to turn "restaurant" into a value term, which it isn't. It doesn't mean anything like "good eating-house", or "eating-house I wouldn't mind people seeing me in".

Clearly.
I'm not even convinced that it means "eating-house where there's a relatively wide range of recipes available à la carte"

Clearly.
What I think is a point of agreement is that "Let's have lunch at a restaurant" would not be understood to include "Let's go to a hamburger joint".

Yes.
But "Let's go to the theatre" wouldn't be heard as "Let's go to the flicks", either.

Clearly.
But a cinema is a theatre.

I'm not so sure I agree. The ol' fashioned (= TCE "old fashion") movie theaters are theaters proper. The typical modern suburban US multiplex thing is not a theater, though it is, or includes a plurality of, movie theater(s).

Steny '08!
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I don't see how we can accept that an old-time bioscope or kinema is a theatre without allowing a multiplex. (I'm tempted to drag in lecture theatres and operating theatres, but am not sure it would help.)
Mike.
Is a buffet or a cafeteria a proper restaurant? You are served while standing, but sit down to eat.

Interesting that you use "buffet" to mean "putative restaurant featuring a buffet". I think RHD also just so used it. ... Isn't the buffet the thing that has all the different kinds of food on it that you go up to?

In a cafeteria, you go through the line, pick out what you want, and pay for each item. You can go back through the line, but are charged additionally for each item. In a buffet, there is a flat price for the meal and you can return to the buffet as many times as you wish for no additional charge. (You may be restricted to one serving of meat, though. Some do, some don't.)
You could call a buffet a "buffet restaurant", but I've never heard anyone do it. Perhaps we're more clever down here than they are in New Yawk and don't need everything spelled out.
You can sit down at notre MacDo.

As at any Mickey Dees I've ever seen.

There are McDonaldseses in food courts that share their tables with other purveyors of comestibles. Also, the one near my house when I was growing up was an "old-style" McDonalds. There were about half a dozen high stools along a counter at the window, but no tables per se.
But that's not what makes a sit-down restaurant the same. A sit-down restaurant is one where someone makes some pretense of taking your order when you sit down. This is so even for the informal buffet places that I believe Coop was referring to.

Usually at least drink orders. There are exceptions, though. Fresh Choice is a salad bar on steroids, and it's entirely self-serve (you go through the salad line, pay, and then help yourself to soups, drinks, pasta, etc.) I think I'd still consider it a sit-down restaurant, but I could see arguments against.

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* fast-food restaurant: restaurant with no waiters. Meals are * purchased at the counter, and taken to a table, or carried out in a * bag. Often has a drive-by window.

"Drive-through" or, possibly, "drive-up" for me. The only thing that can be "drive-by" is a shooting.

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