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Roland Hutchinson filted:
Just how many fingers do you have?

Eleven, evidently, when I count them sufficiently late at night.

Isn't there a joke about a C++ programmer insisting he has nine fingers?...someone finally asks him to count them off so they can see what the problem is and he starts: "zero, one, two"..r
I learned "p" (thumb), "i" (index), "m" (middle), "a" (ring).

There's one missing. :-)

Sorry. It's "p", "i", "m", "a", and "doesn't get used" (pinkie). If there's a letter for it, I don't believe any of my books or teachers has mentioned it.
Hm. When it comes to fingerpicking styles (Maple Leaf Rag and the like), the thumb has almost the same role like the others. No longer mere basso continuo.

Are we talking left thumb or right thumb? (Right-handed player was specified.)
I was taking folk guitar when I bought a classical ... recommended that as an alternative on a couple of chords.

Pollex horribilis. Many beginners play G major throttling the poor guitar neck. This is a clear no-no for classical players.

It wasn't anything as simple as a G major. I don't have any problem with that, even on the wider neck, although I tend to use the 213 fingering more than I did on the folk guitar, as the 324 fingering is a bit of a stretch. No, it was some variant of a G11 if I recall correctly, that basically involved grabbing something on the first three strings and reaching over and getting the G on the sixth.

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >Feeling good about government is like
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >looking on the bright side of anyPalo Alto, CA 94304 >catastrophe. When you quit looking

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When he's older you can wow him with my patent method of counting out a total of eleven digits on ... twice by changing the finger you're tapping with, and end up on the last thumb with a count of eleven.

It's not nice to fool small children. You can harm them for life and they'll grow up to hang around in newsgroups.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play "gotcher nose" with my grandson.
There's one missing. :-)

Sorry. It's "p", "i", "m", "a", and "doesn't get used" (pinkie). If there's a letter for it, I don't believe any of my books or teachers has mentioned it.

And I can't remember any piece of music where I had to use it. Well, maybe Bach's Prelude No. 1, but I wonder if the majority plays it like that.
Hm. When it comes to fingerpicking styles (Maple Leaf Rag ... same role like the others. No longer mere basso continuo.

Are we talking left thumb or right thumb? (Right-handed player was specified.)

Right thumb. Think of Simon and Garfunkel's "Boxer":

1 1 ..
0 0- .
2 2 +
-3 +
3 +
There's no distinction between "thumb notes" and "finger notes" here, it's just a "flowing" melody without the thumb playing stressed bass notes. So here we have a thumb with the same role like the other fingers have, don't we?
No, it was some variant of a G11 if I recall correctly, that basically involved grabbing something on the first three strings and reaching over and getting the G on the sixth.

Similar to D major with the thumb on F# on the sixth? Why is barrée so unpopular?
Best regards
Steffen
Scholes adds: "... an illogicality now exists ... from the point of view of the pianist who is also a player of some stringed instrument". True, but I've never heard anyone comment or complain about it.

I commented about it earlier this year. Tying in to the question of using the left thumb:
(1) This goes both ways. I took my new instrument to my last class and got hit with the Eagles' "Take it to the Limit", which has a G11, (low to high) 3-x-0-2-1-3, theoretically played with the third, second, first, and fourth fingers(2). As near as I can tell, this is physically impossible on a classical guitar. The only way I could figure out how to do it was to play the three high strings with the second, first, and third fingers and reach around the back of the neck and grab the sixth string with my thumb. It worked pretty well, but leafing through the classical guitar texts I've picked up, none of them seem to discuss the technique.
(2) At least as far as guitarists are concerned. With my piano background, I still tend to think of them as fourth, third, second, and fifth fingers.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=oeqv9i5i.fsf%40hpl.hp.com

I won't complain, but it took me a while to get used to and I still find it confusing.

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >When you rewrite a compiler from
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >scratch, you sometimes fix thingsPalo Alto, CA 94304 >you didn't know were broken.

(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net /
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
I'm sure you know it, but do you practice what I preached?

Unfortunately not. You see, I have children, so I have three states: (1) at work; (2) at home, looking after the kids; (3) at home, kids asleep in bed. There is a fourth state - at home, kids out somewhere, but I'm usually too knackered to sit down and practice on the rare occasions that happens.
I'll take it up again in 11 years or more when my youngest leaves home.
It's not a case of strength. It's a case of control. We're talking about playing the piano, not bloody weight-lifting.

I think we both already know that only with strength you can control, and I'm only talking about fingers on the keyboard.No.4 is the weakest, or to use your language, the least controlling.

Funny, I don't think of it as strength. I think of it more in terms of flexibility and independence in each finger, plus, as you say, practice, practice, practice.
Strength I associate with volume, and I can play as loudly as I like with any finger- assuming the kids aren't in bed, of course.
I was more than a little annoyed by the patronising ... all about how well (or how badly) I can play.

I'm almost sure you play better than me (or than I do?) since you seem to be the disciplined type. ... Zenith was in 10th grade when I played Beethoven 1st with the school orchestra. Only the first movement, sans cadenza.

You're probably wrong - I'm not disciplined enough these days (did I tell you I have kids?) Besides, I'm mainly a jazz player - I can play a swinging version of "Misty" or a hard-hitting 12-bar, but wouldn't hope to be able to play Beethoven without a lot of ... um, yeah, practice.
Side anecdote: as a jazz pianist, I have tried to learn some classical pieces, and once bought a large book full of Bach stuff. I opened it at random and vowed to learn the piece I found. I left it open at that page on the stand, and every day for about ten days, I'd have a go (I didn't have kids then). I didn't know what piece it was, but it had "III" at the top, so it was obviously part of a larger scheme.

It was hard, and it wasn't very rewarding, because I was having such difficulty playing something sounding so damned simple and easy. Classical and jazz piano have such different fundamental approaches, and it's very hard to compare the skill required for each.

Anyway, after ten days or so, I gave up in frustration, and looked back in the book to see the title of the piece. I was playing part three of something called (if memory serves): "Six Little Pieces For Beginners". I nearly threw the book away.
But I could, and still can do all sorts of things with "Georgia On My Mind".

John H
Yorkshire, England
I nominate this as being the longest, least interesting thread in AUE today, not that I actually read most of it. Thumb, finger, who cares what they're called?

Presumably the OP and the people discussing it.
We all know what they do, so who wants to discuss them?

Haven't you read the part of the thread discussing guitar technique?
My problem? Such posts use up the time the clever people of AUE could use to post on things that interest *me*. Not so tough since I'm interested in nearly everything. But not in thumbs.

I can't speak for the clever people, but if you try asking an interesting question or bringing up an interesting topic, I'll consider discussing it.

Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >"It makes you wonder if there is
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >anything to astrology after all."Palo Alto, CA 94304 >

http://www.kirshenbaum.net /
I'm not a guitar player, but I'd understood that the ... Spanish classical pieces, that is, not necessarily Spanish left thumbs.

Not to my knowledge. From an interview with Jose Feliciano: At first I had to teach myself, because there was ... said, " I have to use my left thumb on that and every time I do Segovia gets mad". http://www.misterguitar.com/askaplayercummins.html

Thanks - I don't know where I got that idea from. Probably from seeing someone do it "wrong".
On the other hand, there's http://www.btinternet.com/~steve.sedgwick/11string.htm This guitar four strings off the fingerboard that are apparently are meant to be ... as seven strings on the fingerboard). It looks like a sort of combination of a classical guitar and (bass) harp.

Cute.
Have you seen those "stick" things? All fretboard, eleven or so strings, thumbs and and fingers in both hands required? I want one for my birthday.

John H
Yorkshire, England
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2047 (unsigned!), but who's counting?

Just how many fingers do you have? I actually count this way (usually tapping against a surface or my leg, ... just read the answer off your fingers when you're done. You can also easily restart the count from any number.

You know, that's the most impressive thing I've heard all day. You're certainly an ubergeek if you can do that. I'm jealous.
John H
Yorkshire, England
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