re: Try Calling Or Try To Call? page 3

MaroldI still wonder if native speakers of English learn any grammar in school at all,

We native speakers learn a different type of grammar from that which foreign learners learn. We don't, for example, have to spend a great deal of time on the differences between countable and non-countable nouns, simple and progressiive aspects, past simple and present perfect. These things, which often cause great difficulties to non-native learners, come naturally to native speakers because we hear and use hundreds of such constructions every day of our lives. What we have to learn is the conventions of what is generally accepted as 'grammatically correct standard English'. 'me and me dad is going to the match this afternoon' is fine in many varieties/dialects of English. It is not accepted as grammatically correct standard English, though we all understand it.

In some dialects of English, the third person singular of the present simple does not end in -(e)s. In other dialects, all forms end in -(e)s. Children who speak those dialects at home have to learn the 'standard' form if they wish to gain employment in many sectors.

Marold they rarely make the mistake in grammar,

On the one hand, native speakers rarely make mistakes in the grammar of their own dialect. On the other hand, most native speakers make many mistakes according to the 'rules' of the standard accepted language, which is, in some ways, an artificial language.

MaroldOn the other hand, it is not to be denied that Czech is on the top of the hardest languages to learn.

I now live in the Czech Republic, and I know that many Czechs seem to love making this claim.

In fact, for speakers of Indo-European languages, Czech is almost certainly easier than it is for speakers of non Indo-European languages. For speakers of Slavonic languages, it is almost certainly easier than for speakers of non-Slavonic languages. For speakers of more closely related languages such as Slovak, it is almost certainly easier than for speaker of more distantly related lanuages such as Montenegrin.

Objectively speaking, there is no clear evidence that Czech is more difficult than any other language.

fivejedjonObjectively speaking, there is no clear evidence that Czech is more difficult than any other language.

Slightly more objective is the purported claim by linguist and polyglot Mario Pei, who is said to have learned a new language every summer, that Vietnamese is the most difficult language in the world.

CJ

On the other hand, it is not to be denied that Czech is on the top of the hardest languages to learn. It is easier therefore to learn English, as it covers everything you need to express!

My mom's husband is Czech and he taught me the language. I have read some of Karel Capek's books in original. Also Jan Werich's short stories and my all time favorite "Italské prázdniny". I have to admit, it wasn't easy. Yet, saying that Czech is one of the most difficult languages is an overstatement. There is no such thing as easy language. So far I have studied seven and I have come to peace with the fact that I will never really "know" them.

CalifJimSlightly more objective is the purported claim by linguist and polyglot Mario Pei, who is said to have learned a new language every summer, that Vietnamese is the most difficult language in the world.CJ

It just so happens that I once (courtesy of a Vietnamese girlfriend) tried to learn Vietnamese. I was not very successful (= I was a failure ) but the reasons for that are not, in my opinion/memory, a result of the difficulty of Vietnamese, I have tried, at various times, to acquire a smattering of a couple of dozen languages. My success rate varies from near-native-speaker level (German) to embarrassing incompetence (Estonian). Understandably, my success level with Indo-European languages has been greater than with non Indo-European languages; I have been singularly unsuccessful with both tone and agglutinating languages.

I do not doubt that Mario Pei found Vietnamese more difficult than any other language he had tried. I am not sure that Mr X, a Finnish-speaking colleague, or MsY, an Inuit-speaking acquaintance, would agree that, objectively speaking, Vietnamese is the most difficult language in the world.

fivejedjonI am not sure that Mr X, a Finnish-speaking colleague, or MsY, an Inuit-speaking acquaintance, would agree that, objectively speaking, Vietnamese is the most difficult language in the world.

I don't offer Pei's opinion as a proof of any kind, but as he is a well-known, published linguist who knew many languages well, I hold his opinion to be more credible than that of any of my colleagues or acquaintances, most of whom can't fathom the most elementary grammatical facts about their own languages!

That said, I don't believe there is any objective way to determine which is the most difficult language in the world. Still, that language does seem to be whichever one I am trying to learn at any given time.

fivejedjonmy success level with Indo-European languages has been greater than with non Indo-European languages

Same here, which is why I have stuck to those in my own studies.

CJ

fivejedjonnear-native-speaker level (German)

Wow really? I am glad to hear that. Have you been to German numerous times or have you ever had any longer stay there? Understandably, you could have learned and mastered the language on your own by self-studying, but anyways, being in the foreign country gives you far more than cramming some words and grammar by yourself.

I have to admit that I am also a learner of German. Unfortunately, I have been learning German only for 5 years so far, so it is apparent that my level isn't in any particular outstanding and in addition, I should be even way better after those years. My incompetence is caused by having paid little attention to the lectures of my secondary-school teacher of German. Now that the school-leaving exams are drawing closer, I am more attentive.

Frankly speaking, I have never tried Vietnamese, so I cannot give you an account and my opinions on the difficulty, when comparing Vietnamese to Czech language. Perhaps I truly overstated Czech in some aspects, so it is yet to be seen what languages I will have difficulties with.