Use Of Definite Article "The" After "Both"?

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Use Of Definite Article "The" After "Both"?

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I believe it's not the wrong to use definite article "the" after "both". But I think using definite article "the" before "both" is considered wrong because "both" in itself somewhat plays the role of a "definite article". Please let me know if I have it wrong. I have included some example sentences below. Thank you.

1: Can I use both the magic mouse and the magic trackpad?

2: The great source of both the misery and disorders of human life, seems to arise from over-rating the difference between one permanent situation and another.

3: Both the mother and daughter are alike.

Dec 27 2013 14:09:15

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Jackson6612I believe it's not the wrong to use definite article "the" after "both".

Correct. Both can be a pronoun, (pre)determiner or conjunction.

Jackson6612But I think using definite article "the" before "both" is considered wrong because "both" in itself somewhat plays the role of a "definite article".

Correct.

1: Can I use both the magic mouse and the magic trackpad? (both x and y - example of conjunction)
2: OK
3: Both the mother and daughter are alike. ("both" would not normally be used here. You need a third element for comparison)
Both the mother and daughter strikingly resemble the grandmother.
Both of them are going. (pronoun)

Dec 27 2013 14:21:06

Jackson6612But I think using definite article "the" before "both" is considered wrong because "both" in itself somewhat plays the role of a "definite article".

Sometimes you hear people say things like 'the both of us', but I don't consider it standard English. To me, it has to be either 'both of us' or 'the two of us'.

Dec 27 2013 14:28:59

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ozzourtiSometimes you hear people say things like 'the both of us', but I don't consider it standard English.

Yes. As in:

They invited the both of us to their New Year's eve party. (It is debatable whether this qualifies as standard English.)

Dec 27 2013 14:31:45

Thank you, AlpheccaStars, ozzourti.

Dec 27 2013 14:33:41

ozzourtiSometimes you hear people say things like 'the both of us', but I don't consider it standard English

I’d say that’s perfectly standard in AmE. It’s just informal; that’s all.

Dec 30 2013 08:02:22

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Aspara GusI’d say that’s perfectly standard in AmE. It’s just informal; that’s all.

I guess it's a fairly recent development and yet another linguistic oddity. It seems to be gaining popularity, yes, but I don't think that's reason enough for the original poster to start using it. Plain "both of us" works fine for me in every conceivable context—formal or informal.

Dec 30 2013 10:59:45

Jackson6612 wrote:

> 1: Can I use both the magic mouse and the magic trackpad?

Yes, this is a good example, and "both the" is correct here.

2: The great source of both the misery and disorders of human life, seems to arise from over-rating the difference between one permanent situation and another.

This is OK, but don't put a comma between the subject and the verb. I know it seems like a long subject, but that doesn't change things; you don't need a comma here!

3: Both the mother and daughter are alike.

This doesn't work for semantic reasons; it would be impossible for just one of them to be alike!!

You could say, "Both the mother and the daughter have blue eyes," or something like that.

Oct 16 2022 11:14:41

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Jackson6612I believe it's not the wrong to use definite article "the" after "both".
Correct. Both can be a pronoun, (pre)determiner or conjunction.
Jackson6612But I think using definite article "the" before "both" is considered wrong because "both" in itself somewhat plays the role of a "definite article".
Correct.

1: Can I use both the magic mouse and the magic trackpad? (both x and y - example of conjunction)
2: OK
3: Both the mother and daughter are alike. ("both" would not normally be used here. You need a third element for comparison)
Both the mother and daughter strikingly resemble the grandmother.
Both of them are going. (pronoun)
Jackson6612But I think using definite article "the" before "both" is considered wrong because "both" in itself somewhat plays the role of a "definite article".
Sometimes you hear people say things like 'the both of us', but I don't consider it standard English. To me, it has to be either 'both of us' or 'the two of us'.
ozzourtiSometimes you hear people say things like 'the both of us', but I don't consider it standard English.
Yes. As in:

They invited the both of us to their New Year's eve party. (It is debatable whether this qualifies as standard English.)
ozzourtiSometimes you hear people say things like 'the both of us', but I don't consider it standard English
I’d say that’s perfectly standard in AmE. It’s just informal; that’s all.
Aspara GusI’d say that’s perfectly standard in AmE. It’s just informal; that’s all.
I guess it's a fairly recent development and yet another linguistic oddity. It seems to be gaining popularity, yes, but I don't think that's reason enough for the original poster to start using it. Plain "both of us" works fine for me in every conceivable context—formal or informal.
Jackson6612 wrote:

> 1: Can I use both the magic mouse and the magic trackpad?
Yes, this is a good example, and "both the" is correct here.

2: The great source of both the misery and disorders of human life, seems to arise from over-rating the difference between one permanent situation and another.
This is OK, but don't put a comma between the subject and the verb. I know it seems like a long subject, but that doesn't change things; you don't need a comma here!

3: Both the mother and daughter are alike.
This doesn't work for semantic reasons; it would be impossible for just one of them to be alike!!
You could say, "Both the mother and the daughter have blue eyes," or something like that.

Use Of Definite Article "The" After "Both"?

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