I know that using the word "and" in numbers is wrong (one hundred and ten) but I can't find a site that explains this. Especially since and is removed from web search parameters.

Anyone know of a site that explains this?
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And I might add the lyrics from South Pacific's 'Honey Bun':

My doll is as dainty as a sparrow,
Her figure is somethin' to applaud.
Where she's narrow she's as narrow an arrow,
And she's broad where a broad should be broad.

A hundred and one pounds of fun,
That's my little honey bun!
Get a load of honey bun tonight.

I'm speakin' of my Sweetie Pie,
Only sixty inches high,
Ev'ry inch is packed with dynamite!

Her hair is blond and curly,
Her curls are hurly-burly.
Her lips are pips!
I call her hips 'Twirly' and 'Whirly

Well, that source trumps just about everything. I should have looked it up myself. I keep a very authoritative edition of Broadway Musical Comedy Lyrics right between Encyclopedia Britannica and the Oxford Unabridged on my book shelf. Emotion: smile

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Mister Micawber
"and" is usually left out in American English when reading numbers.
This is not my experience (or my habit) at all, Kooyeen. Where did you get this information?

"one hundred eighty-six"

Uh, I don't know, I think... Wikipedia, some stuff I read in some forums, in some grammar book or dictionary too. I've always heard Americans usually say "two thousand one" instead of "two thousand and one", or "one hundred eighty-six" instead of "one hundred and eighty-six" Emotion: smile
Hmm-- well, it looks to me now as if it is very individual, Kooyeen. Some do and some don't.

As long as we're on the topic, I might as well go on to say that I have been making a (small) point of teaching 'hundred 'n'...' as 'natural English' to most of my students. In addition to my own habit of doing so (could it be a Midwest American thing?), I have been using the excellent textbook, Listen Carefully, by Jack C. Richards (Oxford U Press), whose accompanying cassette also (as you said, in BrE) presents the 'hundred 'n'...' form.

In light of Jim's comments, however, I think I will drop this exercise.
Don't drop the exercise on my account!

It's quite possible that I am the victim of an occupational hazard: In my education in math and sciences and in my jobs in finance systems, I was usually in environments where everyone was continually abbreviating by dropping the "and"s, just because numbers came up so very frequently in the conversations. The use of the "and" may be more common in the lives of "real people" without the same occupational deformities. Emotion: smile

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From my experience, the form "and" is used most naturally in North American English, however, many people have the form without the "and" in their idiolect, because math books caution against its used. Most math books insist that one should only use "and" when refering to a decimal point, and not to use it after hundreds. I used to use it until I was in grade 1 where the teacher insisted that it was more correct to use the "and-less" form. I usually use the "and" form in everyday conversation, because it sounds more natural to me
, but when I am reading math problems, I leave it out.

From my experience, the form "and" is used most naturally in North American English It's certainly used in Canada.


For what it's worth, I'm used to saying "and" (I can't remember why ... was I taught to do so? Sorry, it must be because of my age but I really don't remember why Emotion: big smile). However, I distinctly remember the lyrics from a musical, "Rent" (if I'm not mistaken, it's from the US) ... here is the chorus:

Five hundred twenty-five thousand
Six hundred minutes,
Five hundred twenty-five thousand
Moments so dear.
Five hundred twenty-five thousand
Six hundred minutes
How do you measure, measure a year?

In daylights, in sunsets, in midnights
In cups of coffee
In inches, in miles, in laughter, in strife.

In five hundred twenty-five thousand
Six hundred minutes
How do you measure
A year in the life?
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I was taught (by a teacher that used mainly British English) that 1,234 is read as "one thousand, two hundred and thirty-four". He used to tell us the differences between British and American English, and I don't remember his telling us about any difference in this case (although it was a long time ago, so I might not remember well).
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