Until tonight it was THE subject in France, is it the same in other countries? What do Europeans think about this topic? Do they really involved in the subject? And what do others think about this poll, or by the legislative way of agreement? Thanks for your comments
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I was a little amused when watching the BBC news this morning. There has been a pretty firm 'no' vote from the French people, but all the politicians interviewed were in denial. They merely lamented the fact that the new 'constitution' hadn't been 'sold' well enough. No one seemed to have been considering the possibilty that the 'constitution' may actually be seriously flawed, at least in the eyes of the voting public.
I wonder whether the people really know the content of the constitution. I do not but would have voted 'yes'. I think it is sad in a way... May be the French people wanted to say 'no' to their government and high unemployment rates? Very understandable! But having a constitution is necessary to get a better feeling about what Europe means. Europeans always look back, they need to go ahead...
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You're right Delb to say that french people wanted to say no to the government, nevertheless, that was not the question and I regret that that French misenderstood the question which was say yes or no to the Constitution and not to say yes or no to the government, or to say that the unemployment rate is too high, as it is in other countries in Europe.

Nonetheless, I'm not sure to follow you when you say that Europeans always look back instead of going ahead.
I haven't read the constitution, but I have read a few opinions that the constitution diminishes people's democratic rights, and centralises power in the hands of leaders many of whom have not even been elected to their posts.
Is there any truth in these opinions?
I think this is the problem Mike. Who wants to read the constitution? Pas moi, for one. But I would appreciate a precis - European Constitution for Idiots.

If we have a referendum in UK, we will be asked to vote on something we know nothing about, so back to "Trust Me Teflon Tony" then.Emotion: indifferent
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European Constitution for Idiots? Hmm...I'm not sure that I know what you mean..

Mike: The people of the member states do at least have the right to participate the elections for the European Parliament. They did this last year, some of them... And as for the posts: That is the same in every government.

Sharann: What I meant is: The Europeans are so proud of their history in so many ways and they certainly do have good reasons for this, but it is nothing you can build a future on. So many people here in Germany (and elsewhere too, I think) are scared of people from the eastern countries for instance coming and getting their jobs. What they don't see is: We desperately need them because the Germans don't get enough children. Times have changed! They refuse to see this
I read that British citizens have not even been issued with copies of the contitution. How can they be expected to vote on something they know nothing about? Furthermore, something which effectively supercedes all existing British laws?

Round one seems to have gone to the 'NO' camp. What I fear is that in round 2, the 'people' will have absolutely no say in the outcome whatsoever (as was the case in Germany, where there was NO democratic referendum).

Dandy carrots will be dangled ... but look out for the stick!

"The most effective way to restrict democracy is to transfer decision-making from the public arena to unaccountable institutions."
Noam Chomsky
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Guest has not clearly stated the aims of CREC, and the following information is from a leaflet published by CREC - Campaign to Reject the European Constitution. It therefore constitutes a political statement on behalf of a pressure group / lobbying group. Posters who wish to find out more about CREC can visit their website at http://www.european-referendum.org.uk / where you will find links to other anti-EU groups and political parties. We would be interested in your comments on the statements below.


Six Questions and Answers
on the Proposed European Constitution

This leaflet, by CREC, a group of British people from all walks of life, informs you about a vital subject - the attempt to replace the British Constitution with a European Constitution. This will remove many rights we have under our existing Constitution - and will profoundly affect the generation that follows you. Please take a few quiet moments to read it

1. What is the 'European Constitution'?
ANSWER: It is a proposed new set of rules for governing Europe - an attempt to create a 'Euro State'. This will replace the nations of Europe with one huge new nation. Britain has its own Constitution; other countries have theirs. But under the proposed 'European Constitution', Britain and other E.U. countries will no longer have their own constitutions.

2. Why do you say that?
ANSWER: Because they want to take away the rights of nations to make decisions about their own future. This is just some of what they want to put in the European Constitution:
(a) one President for the whole of the European Union
(b) one foreign policy and one defence policy for the whole of the European Union
(c) one Army, Navy and Air Force for the whole of the European Union
(d) one justice system for the whole of the European Union - without jury trial
(e) one currency (the euro) for the whole of the European Union
(f) one taxation system for the whole of the European Union (which means higher taxes)
(g) the E.U. (not Britain) will have legal power to negotiate treaties and trade agreements and represent Britain on world bodies like the U.N., the W.T.O. and the 'G8' countries.
To put it very simply, as a nation we will no longer be able to make key decisions about our future. We will have lost control over matters affecting our prosperity, welfare and safety.

3. Why is that a problem? Surely it's better to be part of a strong Europe? Isn't it time the European nations came together to stop wars happening in the future?
ANSWER: The arguments for being part of a 'strong Europe' are complex. We are already part of the 'common market' - adopting the European Constitution won't change that. The euro hasn't benefited eurozone countries - French unemployment is around 3 million and German unemployment nearing 5 million. Ours remains under 1½ million. We've flourished in the past as an independent nation. The experience of the euro shows that we don't have to give up our independence to succeed in the world. Two World Wars weren't caused by Europe not being united. They happened because an undemocratic German government invaded other countries. There have been many past attempts to create one nation from different cultures. Recent examples were the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. They broke up as the peoples within them demanded the right to govern themselves - after years of being run by undemocratic governments. We co-operate closely with other European nations already. A single Euro-government would be remoter from the people than it is now. Only politicians really want a European Constitution - they will get more power, influence and money.

4. Are there any real dangers about adopting a European Constitution?
ANSWER: Yes, many. The most fundamental are about the loss of liberty. Under the European Constitution, we will get a uniform justice system with these features:
(a) it will end the right to jury trial. Decisions will be made by paid professional judges, appointed by the European Union
(b) it will end habeas corpus. This is the very precious right we have in this country not to be detained by the Police longer than 24 hours, without being brought before a Court of law where the Police have to prove they have an arguable case
(c) it will in certain cases end the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
These sound legal principles mean a state cannot abuse its power. They've enabled us to be a free people. The European Constitution will permanently end these precious principles. We will lose all control over our right to determine our own future. When British monarchs are crowned, they promise, under oath, to guarantee to preserve the 'laws and customs' of the British people. They will no longer be able to do so under an E.U. Constitution.

A decision to adopt this Constitution is even more important than on whether to adopt the euro. We say simply that the people of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland should have the right to decide this issue - just as the smallest club or society must have a proper vote on whether to change its constitution. A major national debate is needed. Below shows you some of what we're at risk of throwing away:

British Constitution would be replaced completely with a European Constitution

Right to Jury Trial would be replaced ... Jury Trial abolished under 'Corpus Juris'

Police must produce you in Court after holding you for 24 hours ... would be replaced with Detention without trial for unlimited periods
(again, see the E.U.'s book 'Corpus Juris']

The rights and freedoms Briton have had under British common law for centuries would be replaced with New, repressive, European laws

Decisions made by MPs you can throw out every 5 years would be replaced with Decisions made by unelected Commissioners who can be appointed for indefinite periods

Parliament with powers to make laws E.U. Parliament has no power to make laws

Annual Budget decided by Parliament Budget decided by Commissioners - and so badly misspent that the E.U. auditors have refused to approve their accounts for 8 years
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