re: When Is RP RP? page 3
Thus spake R F:
Nonsense.
Hasn't someone revealed that no one speaks RP. They probably never have. It is not a regional dialect, it's not the queen's dialect, it's not a broadcasting dialect; it is a convenient fiction, like the linguists' "educated speaker" and "standard dialect". RP is convenient for instructing foreigners in how to sound like a poofter.
But that's beside the point.
The only vowels that may, with some justification, be called pure are the cardinal vowels that appear at each junction of the lines that make up the IPA vowel chart. Most of those vowels don't appear in English, if any do.
Simon R. Hughes
(to Matti, re: RP)
Lastly, "pure-vowelled". I have to admit that I don't know ... true from an RP speaker's own prespective, like "neutral" above.
I have some idea that it might be analogous to the "pureness" of something like Muzak. NTTAWWT; Muzak is very ... unusually large number who speak it not naturally but by late acquisition, so perhaps that gives it a studied quality.
Nonsense.
Hasn't someone revealed that no one speaks RP. They probably never have. It is not a regional dialect, it's not the queen's dialect, it's not a broadcasting dialect; it is a convenient fiction, like the linguists' "educated speaker" and "standard dialect". RP is convenient for instructing foreigners in how to sound like a poofter.
But that's beside the point.
The only vowels that may, with some justification, be called pure are the cardinal vowels that appear at each junction of the lines that make up the IPA vowel chart. Most of those vowels don't appear in English, if any do.
Simon R. Hughes
>
Is RP (received pronunciation) a term that most Brits understand and bandy about?
It took months of reading this newsgroup before I had a handle on what it meant, and today I can't remember why it is called that.
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
Is RP (received pronunciation) a term that most Brits understand and bandy about?
It took months of reading this newsgroup before I had a handle on what it meant, and today I can't remember why it is called that.
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
Site Hint: Check out our list of pronunciation videos.
} On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:30:09 -0400, R F
}
}
}> > I thought we'd sort-of-established that RP is not the }> > same as "public school", "Oxbridge", "upper-class" or }> > similar phrases. RP is classless, neutral,
}> > pure-vowelled.
}
}> That sounds like what a1a himself would say.
}
} Whatever a1a would say, he would write it in such a muddled } fashion that nobody could honestly say for certain what he } meant. His postings were so full of obscure allusions that } I sometimes thought his style was even worse than } Valentine's.
I suspect that "nobody" is a little harsh. Those who knew what he meant knew for sure what he meant. There may even be a reader or two who (TCE: "that") catches *my* drift.
R. J. Valentine
}
}
}> > I thought we'd sort-of-established that RP is not the }> > same as "public school", "Oxbridge", "upper-class" or }> > similar phrases. RP is classless, neutral,
}> > pure-vowelled.
}
}> That sounds like what a1a himself would say.
}
} Whatever a1a would say, he would write it in such a muddled } fashion that nobody could honestly say for certain what he } meant. His postings were so full of obscure allusions that } I sometimes thought his style was even worse than } Valentine's.
I suspect that "nobody" is a little harsh. Those who knew what he meant knew for sure what he meant. There may even be a reader or two who (TCE: "that") catches *my* drift.
R. J. Valentine
I thought I had just said it, so perhaps you didn't understand my accent; explain away.
Well, I thought you might be trolling.
There's a comprehensive and, from other researches, apparently representative article at this site, which I have only just encountered and propose to explore further:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A657560
"No two speakers of English speak the language identically. Every English-speaking country, and practically every region within those countries, has a distinctive accent. It is also true that meanings of words and grammatical forms can vary from one English-speaking country to another but this article is not about all the differences between the various forms of English. It is concerned solely with the standard pronunciation of British English. This is what linguists call Received Pronunciation (RP). RP refers exclusively to pronunciation, though it can be seen as analagous to Standard English (SE)."
Matti
On 16 Oct 2003, sage wrote
"> I'm putting up a 20-second clip of the BBC ... more quickly than he would have done "as a lad."
I wonder: there was definitely a 1930s/40s form of RP that was spoken unbelievably* quickly think Noel Coward between ... years later even Noel Coward didn't speak as fast as Noel Coward; it was quite amazingly *rapid.) Cheers, Harvey
Our theatre group wants to do a reading of Blithe Spirit. Discussions about "style" have been hilarious. There are a few Brits left in the group who remember the kind of thing you mean. But others find it hard to believe.
By the way, I heard Rowan Williams (why is it almost de rigeur to write Atkinson after Rowan?) on tv last might (1). What a magnificent speaking voice he has. I don't know if he still gives regular sermons but I bet he keeps 'em listening.
Now: What kind of an accent does he have? Would you describe him as an RP speaker? I believe he's of Welsh origin (there's a rhythm underlying his speech that bears that out) which perhaps has something to do with his speech quality, as well.
(1) Archbishop of Canterbury.
Cheers, Sage
Teachers: We supply a list of EFL job vacancies
(I don't think anyone today speaks as quickly as Noel ... as fast as Noel Coward; it was quite amazingly rapid.)
Our theatre group wants to do a reading of Blithe Spirit. Discussions about "style" have been hilarious. There are a few Brits left in the group who remember the kind of thing you mean. But others find it hard to believe.
There's an example of Coward's delivery c.1930 at
http://martins78turntable.dns2go.com/tunes.html scroll down to the recording of "Mad Dogs and Englishmen".
Surprisingly, this isn't as fast as I recall hearing it delivered I seem to remember a movie or TV clip which was considerably quicker but as he speaks many of the lines on that recording, it's a useful example of that sort of RP.
By the way, I heard Rowan Williams (why is it almost de rigeur to write Atkinson after Rowan?) on tv ... keeps 'em listening. Now: What kind of an accent does he have? Would you describe him as an RP speaker?
As you say below, there are Welsh undertones in there; but I think one could safely describe Williams as an RP speaker.
I believe he's of Welsh origin (there's a rhythm underlying his speech that bears that out) which perhaps has something to do with his speech quality, as well.
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 21 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
I'd suggest a classification that was "contemporary RP" (Arthur No. 2 and Rainbow No. 1), "archaic RP" (or "old-style RP" ... "Rainbow" as No. 1: the one I suggest above calling "contemporary RP" or even just RP and dumping the others.
That's Markus Laker. If you look at the section of the page headed "Received Pronunciation", you'll see that he describes himself as "older style RP". Unless I'm very much mistaken he's also the person you describe as "estuarian RP" - perhaps he had a bit of a cold that day.
ISTM that for "Arthur the Rat", RP speakers 1 and 2 are incorrectly transposed. The reading labelled "RP speaker 2" is in fact RP speaker 1. The reading labelled "RP speaker 1" is the same voice as "RP speaker 2" elsewhere. Therefore (and I hope I don't confuse too many people doing this), I have just switched the links to the way I think they're supposed to be. So all the "RP speaker 1"s link to texts spoken by the same person, etc.
I've also provided links from the sound file labels to the "Received Pronunciation" section towards the bottom of the page, in the hope that people will find it more easily. If Ross or anyone would like to suggest some additional explanatory text for that section, please do.
Mike Barnes
Webmaster, http://alt-usage-english.org /