This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering that I have seen...

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:
"I don't believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer. "Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.
Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would there be abandoned children?

If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.

Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.
He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:
"You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because
if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me."
"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!
That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."
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Ah, but here is a counterexample. When you see a man who has long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard, can you honestly know that he is suffering, or is in pain? There is a chance that he enjoys this way of life, that he does not see what is wrong with his appearance. He might be a happy man. This man might not need "His" help, let alone ours. Regardless of how we judge, we cannot decide who "looks like they need help", and who doesn't. Hell. I need help for literally everything. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to "Him" for help. Maybe I've even been trying.

Alas, I'm not religious. So, this does not affect me much. I just wanted to share my opinion, and I hope I didn't offend. Emotion: smile
Do you think so egoetc?

i have an other opinion.
if i saw a man like that , i don't going to say that he enjoys his life at all.
he's free of course, but it isn't normal to the mankind nature.
someone who didn't pay attention to himself has a kind of problem, certainly.
he's suffering in some way, and there is degrees and kinds of suffering.
and it'isnt important to be religious to observe that. just a baby or a children can feel bad if he saw a man like that. no?

sorry for my english.
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Of course, that's perfectly reasonable. And, I can see what you mean. But I guess I don't really understand what 'normal to the mankind nature' is. What is defined as normal? We are so different - every single one of us - that for me, I can't even define normal. What's your view, on this? I also see what you mean by degrees and kinds of suffering; and for not having to be religious to observe that, I completely agree. Emotion: smile I'm not sure if a baby or a child would feel bad, though. Their parents might tell them, "that's wrong", they might teach them the morals; but I don't think they'd fully understand. Your English is perfectly understandable. Emotion: wink
ok, we are so different, but you can't say that we are it totaly.
what is defined as normal? well, there are somethings defined as normal in all the world and in all world cultures..and there is many examples.
we can say that the normal for all the world is the mariage between a man and a woman, but between homo no, there are free, but it steel not normal all the time. and it steel not reasonable also.
this is just an example.
but, a baby or a child, is going to feel uncomfortable if he saw a dirty and bad man,
but after that, the parents teachs him that in this world, you're going to see the normal and the not normal things for all the huumanity, so please,don't feel bad, even if it hard to do it in the begening.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not a religious man. To be more precise, I'm an agnostic, free thinker man, and I am ready by all means to prove that "You cannot prove the existence of God!" Isn't it clear that if there existed a proof for the existence of what you call god, based on logic, then it had been ages that there would be no argue over this problem?
It is customary to tell us in our theology courses that god has created us to conduct experiments on us. Isn't it funny? You suffer from pain because someone/ something is testing you!
Let this junk alone, or you will be labeled as a superstitious guy.

PS. Most of, if one wants to avoid the word all, the discoveries in the world that we are living in is done, because of some people who didn't think NORMALLY.
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Hi Englishlearningboy,

that right, i'm not here to prouve the existence of God, because it is prouved in the nature simply if you observe and analyse many things in this life.
me too i'm a free thinker woman, to be a muslim, for me, didn't opposed to be free thinker. maybe in other religions, i don't know exactly.
it's the same thing if someone who knows their parents and he stills a free thinker man. and he's going to be more happy also, because he knows his origines. and all the quetions in his mind have answers, and logical answers.
i can ask you just some questions?
who decide that someone is going to live 30 yeras, and the other 50, or 60 or maybe 20...?
do you think that all this universe is created by chance? have you observe the universe with a scientificly eye?
do you speak about logic , do you think that we are created by chance? just like that?
and why there aren't more mankind created by chance now???
just thinking in youself very and very well..do you think that you are created by chance!
But see, almoslima, that is where I think there is a fault. You ask, "who decides?", whereas I wonder if we can even argue if it is a "who". And when you might say, "do you think we're here by chance", I say, "We're here." You also mentioned that there is proof of the existence of God in nature, where is that so? It is not just humanity that counts; do you think there's a God for animals? for trees? for soil, for grass, for water, for air? I do not believe that anyone can or will decide on how long they will live, unless they plan down to the last detail their day of suicidal death. And even then, you can be standing on top of a building, ready to jump, ready to do it, when suddenly at the last second you pull back. I do not think that "God" has a calender written out for every single person, let alone that there is even a God.
Also, there IS more mankind. Babies are born every day, animals, plants. There might even be a whole other universe that we will one day explore, but right now we do not know, and we may never know. There is too little proof and too much of everything to analyse what is real. Is God just another one of humanity's mere illusion, trying to put fear or order in others?

Finally, you ask if we think we are created by chance. As above, I mentioned I don't really think about chance. I, and you, cannot know what chance is. There are too many possibilities of what is, that no one can truly explain. I do not think it is even a question worth asking, for it's like asking, "Was this tree grown from a seed in California?", even though the tree looks like just another regular tree. It does not matter where, just as long as it is there. Chance or no chance, I was born from my mother's womb, and that's that.

Earlier you described normal. You said that homosexuals were free to do so as they wish, though it is not considered normal. It is not considered "normal" through SOCIETY'S eyes. I know that in most religions, homosexuality is banned. Why IS that? You call yourself a free thinker, but you are not even ALLOWED to do what it is your thoughts THINK. We can then argue about freedom, what is liberty and is liberty only mutual, but I won't get into that. You only believe that homosexuality is not normal because society says it isn't. But think about it; what if heterosexuality came "after" homosexuality? Meaning: what if the majority of the populations were homosexuals, would heterosexuals be considered as NORMAL? No, it would be just like our case today. Therefore, we cannot judge or presume anything, knowing that everything can suddenly be reversed at any different angle of perspective.

I'm not sure if anything I just said made sense, all I know is that it made sense in my mind. Emotion: embarrassed
Dear egoetc.
I don't speak english very well, so i want to tell you many things but, i don't know.
i will try to simplify.


You also mentioned that there is proof of the existence of God in nature, where is that so?
you must use you're mind, analyse, search, and you'll see it.

I do not think that "God" has a calender written out for every single person
Why not?

Chance or no chance, I was born from my mother's womb, and that's that.
this is your way of thinking?
if you have a doubt and you suspect in many things in this life, you said i was born from my mother's womb and that's all.
we must use our brain more than that, i think
.

know that in most religions, homosexuality is banned. Why IS that? You call yourself a free thinker, but you are not even ALLOWED to do what it is your thoughts THINK.

i tell you that they are free, because God created as so differents, but if we left all the society to be homo, there going to be a disaster, for many reasons, and you know them. so they must stopped them. like stopping the murderes and killers, we can't say that they are free. NO.
and what about children who lives with 2 men,or 2 women? it's very bad for them. and very riducules, because thay know that they are born from a mother and a father.
it's who's going to make more babies in this world? and and give as a powerful brain to think very well. and to choose.
Hi has send the messengers to explain, but we still free to choose. and to have the respnsability to this choice. and the results.
i know that in the christian religion and in the judaism , many things have been changed by persons, so we find many Errors and many follies, like 3 Gods, or saying that the messenger jesus is the son of God,...
all that create a problem in finding the true ,and the right way. and many persons are choosed the atheism, because they haven't find answers for their questions.

but , you don't have to be very materialist.
have you ever seen a soul or a spirit??
of course NO;
and i can't tell you prouve me the existence of a spirit, or a mind, or feelings, or maybe intelligence.
we knows that exist, but where and how? we don't know now.
you are a body and a soul, so you need a phisical nutrution and a spiritual nutrution,
you can't live happy if you don't have the 2.
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