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Hi Sanz, I would respecfully refer you to my previous post replying to Savvysavz. I would make the point that I was not referring to just outright war. In my first post I make reference to all murders and killings for religious reasons. Religion has, throughout history, been undeniably responsible for thousands of murders, acts of inhuman torture and mass killings. I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with this?.

Lionel
Cher Henrietta, I had to think about your post, as you do make some viable points. It's not unreasonable to say that in todays stressful modern life the incorporation of "mindfullness mediation" into one's routine could indeed have a benefical effect on stress levels.

In this context is religion not just a means to an end?. As with most things there are always other means to achieve the same end. A time of relaxation, forget all your daily problems and worries is probably a good thing, but you don't need religion to do this.

You are, in a way comparing religion to a medicine, 'Take some of this and it will improve your wellbeing'. This maybe so but I would suggest you watch out for the side effects...they can kill you.

Lionel
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Lionel In ParisBut don't you agree that it would seriously cut down the number of wars that have been and those that could be fought over religious differences?.

Not really. Like I said before,if religion isn't the scapegoat, something else would be.You gave good examples of the past & present on wars caused by religion. But what about other crimes,for example racism?Racism has nothing to do with religion and yet it has killed millions in the past and continues to exist even today. What about other crimes in the world? There are countries where women are regularly tortured by their husbands to give their in-laws money and other materialistic comforts. If the husbands are not satisfied( they are never satisfied anyway),the women are brutally murdered and nobody does anything about it. People keep silent because the victim was a woman.

Somebody like Osama bin Laden chose Islam because that was his easy way out. Do you really think any 'holy book' of any religion would ask the followers to commit massacres?

I don't think abolishing religions is going to make any difference in curbing crime rates. I think if we want to live in a better world, one criteria would be to give each person their freedom of choice - which includes the freedom in having a religion or not and not debating over it.

Savvy
Hi Savvy, I'm glad we both agree some wars are caused by religion. So logically , get rid of the cause and you get rid of some wars. It must be admitted that some people react only because of religious reasons and are not just bizarroïde psychos looking for a fight.

Racism and wife killing are not exactly what we are tallking about here although I admit they are problems the world will have to deal with in the end. ( Why not start a thread on the wife problem it might be interesting to hear what people say.)

However to return to religion and the problems it causes. My observation is simple, remove the reason for the problem and you remove the problem. If everybody in the world had a car(the same car) nobody would logically steal cars!.

Think of all the good we could do with the money saved by having no religions. Instead of building a church you could build a hospital or a school. Pull down all the 'places of worship' and build homes for the homeless, maybe a few centres for battered wives.Emotion: smile

Lionel
Lionel In Paris...remove the reason for the problem and you remove the problem...

So, what are you suggesting? Draft up some laws like those in communist China and the old KGB cotrolled USSR to make religion an offence against the state?
I agree, some religions could behave better, but another set of totalitarianism chains and another witchhunt against people who carry the Koran, the Bible, or any other book that teaches the fallibility of man doesn't really seem the right way to go.
Live and let live. The dark ages and the inquisitions are behind us, aren't they?
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Anonymous
Lionel In Paris
...remove the reason for the problem and you remove the problem...

So, what are you suggesting? Draft up some laws like those in communist China and the old KGB cotrolled USSR to make religion an offence against the state?
How right you are, this campaign has two parts persuasion and execution. I do not think the methods you outline would be appropriate due to there low popularity factor.

The way I see it we have several options.

1) We could simply declare war, apart from the English and the Americans the majority of the worlds armies are not doing a lot right now. Although some spoilsports might question the logic of stopping war by starting oneEmotion: sad

2) We could do it legally through the courts, sueing each religion for damages payable for their part in past wars. This again could have setbacks, I imagine the employee's of each religion would fight tooth and nail to keep their jobs. Lets face it free board and lodging for a one day working week is not bad.

3) The last scenario is the one I like best. We do what every government does when faced with a really difficult problem. When it's illegal, keep it secret and plan a big coverup!. It would be wise not to be seen to be directly involved, we need a dupe. Only one man springs to mind, President Bush, well known for his dupidness.

A quick anonymous 'phone call explaining that His Holiness the Pope has a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction stashed in the garden shed at the Vatican should do the trick.Mr. Bush will react without thinking , as usual, especially if we add that Sunday afternoons are a good time to strike as they are all at home and the Ecumenical Council are normally a bit sleepy when they get back from the pub.

However herein lies the problem, Mr. Bush will probably send the Air Force to do a surgical strike but as everyone knows these strikes never work.The videos you see on T.V. always show one bomb zipping through the toilet window knocking the gun from the terrorists hands. What you don't see is the 987 other bombs wiping out the rest of the neighbourhood. This 'surgical strike' will probably result in half of Rome being knocked out along with several thousand dead..

We will have to circulate our coverup story that during a raid on organized crime several bystanders were unfortunately victim of over enthusiastic police action.

As you can see this and other well thought out plans will soon solve the problem of religion!.[A]Emotion: big smile

Lionel.
Not bad. But the Pope has to approve all wars and strikes that the USA make.

The planning would probably go like this;
Georgie, 'Hi Popey boy'
HH, 'Well hello son'
Georgie, 'We would like to do a bit of rearranging around your place, so, um, er, what time would be good for you?'
HH (thinks; lol, he thinks it's his idea - dope), 'How about Friday afternoon? I'll be at a party in Naples then.'
Georgie, 'OK, let's synchro... synchra... wind our watches'
Hi, Lionel. I am new here and I want to share my views regarding your first on-line view.

I am Roman Catholic believer. Once when I was in high school and early college days, I also questioned my belief in the faith. The first question I have to answer was WHY WAS I BORN? Wasn't this the first question of any human being who became an adult? I was born with a purpose. A purpose I have to discover for myself. And until now I am 35 years old, I still am discovering. At one time also, I realized maybe my endpoint is to be perfect that is before life is taken away from me. The second question IS THERE REALLY A GOD? There are many religions that man created but do I believe in a Sublime Being who created me thru my parents, who created this earth and the Milky Way? Will my small mind understand the real truth in this existence? Can I really find the truth in this existence? Piece by piece I hope I will. Just like the people of the past who had no idea that the world was round, it took man many years to realize the vastness of the earth and realize that he is very small. I do think when men of olden times tried to answer the second question, religion was born. As you have illustrated many wars were waged in the name of religion in the past and in the present, but if you look closer to their reasons, they used religion to arrive at their own selfish whims for if you learn the different religions you will find that the hatred of one's neighbor like killing, stealing and other bad things will never be advocated in the Bible,Kohran and others. It is the interpretation and reaction of each individual on the teaching that varies because MAN IS IMPERFECT until we reach that perfection will we find a perfect world. Religion acts only as a signpost toward PERFECTION. Wars exist so man will understand his errors and should be wiser not to engage in these devastation but man continue to do his own will not minding of the detrimental effects such as the loss of lives. One should not blame religion for these wars but instead should look into himself for better ways to deal with problems whether it is personal or global.
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I'd prefer a world society with more focus on spiritual development and less on religious development. In my humble opinion the later has lead consistently to segregation, isolation and war. Perhaps it is partly due to the fact that the various world regions can never agree on their version of the ‘truth’, yet most claim a direct channel of communication with God (something I’d consider very presumptuous, if I were almighty).

The world’s religions seem more closely linked with politics, than development of a higher state of mind. Once again - this is just my opinion, however unpopular it is in this dark day and age. I realise, however, that many reasonable people have over the years found much benefit in the various faiths.

Note to some: Before you argue a point; read what is written.
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